Do you folks think happiness is to harsh this version 2.7?
- Thread starter josh4
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For domination too? I though it's one of the best wonders for that.
The issue is that taking a city once all the units around it are dead is easy. So Zeus only speeds up when you are already winning, it doesn't do anything to help you kill their units around the city. It is also pretty early so the opportunity cost of it is high. You could have mausoleum instead and while that doesn't directly help you attack more science and culture will get you better units. A % bonus to attacking is also a lot worse than just increasing combat strength through tech, you will have more and more buffs on your units over time so each one has less impact.
I'd take it for free or as a national wonder but I can't imagine going out of my way to get it at all.
Yeah, everything is easy when you're already winning. Even then speeding up conquering matters. If it speeds up on average 2 turns per city then you conquer 10th city 20 turns earlier. That's a huge advantage.
Yeah but when building it costs you 3 units in the early game when you only have 3 units....that's a much slower military push.
I occasionally build it under 1 very, very specific circumstance.
You immediately rush bronze working to build spearmen and heavy tribute city-states, getting culture via authority. One or two city-states give production, so you grab Statue of Zeus. Its effectively a slightly more expensive barracks that gives culture and faith. The promotion is okay, I think it applies to ships and that is useful.
Its easily the weakest ancient era wonder (possibly the weakest overall?)
Zeus is very good because it gives barracks and faith. And the barracks also gives science. You can immediately get experienced fighters and for some time not be distracted by the construction of the Shrine and Concil. Spearmen are more expensive than warriors, but if the city coped with the construction of Zeus, then everything is fine with hammers in the city. Well, since spearmen are stronger than warriors, which are common, we will get culture for killing. Plus city-states are very fearful of spearmen early on and easy to receive tribute.
The Wonder is very good, but to build it is something from the realm of fantasy.
The Wonder is very good, but to build it is something from the realm of fantasy.
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TakkuPanda
Chieftain
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Unhappiness from Urbanization is additive on top of the usual unhappiness, and can cause the total unhappiness to exceed the city population.
Oh, I didn't know that. Is that intended or bug?
Ok, then maybe I'm overestimating it. If it's so bad then surely it needs a buff.
Rekk
Deity
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It is intended.
Why? It surely makes the system more confusing. Does it actually make the system so much better that it justify it? What's the reason behind this?
It seems to me that in every city the unhappines must be limited to the population of the city. This will allow the player to start growing specialists much earlier, with which the AI has a huge advantage, it is enough to move like this by 200 to compare the territories of the player's countries and the AI. The AI will have many Manufactories, Towns. The player has 1-3 pieces.
For the AI, moving a citizen into a specialist slot causes less resource drain (food, hammers) and less happiness loss due to this drain. Although on Deity now I regularly meet AI with happiness below 50%, which used to be something incredible - it was necessary to destroy the economy very much for the AI to sink at least 60% happiness.
For the AI, moving a citizen into a specialist slot causes less resource drain (food, hammers) and less happiness loss due to this drain. Although on Deity now I regularly meet AI with happiness below 50%, which used to be something incredible - it was necessary to destroy the economy very much for the AI to sink at least 60% happiness.
I do like the 15% bonus damage against cities, eventually, it's a good long term bonus that does help break what would otherwise be stalemates. But maybe Statue of Zeus needs a better 'right now' bonus to help justify the cost. Maybe spawning a small army, or in a flashback to civ 3, spawn two companion cavalry units.
Actually come to think of it, would having an army spawn on construction, and after every new era be useful? It's definitely a different situational bonus, but it would allow a 'refund' of sorts immediately after building it. That would resolve the push issue, and while having an army spawn isn't something I find useful all the time, it's definitely something I'd like when playing tall civs
Actually come to think of it, would having an army spawn on construction, and after every new era be useful? It's definitely a different situational bonus, but it would allow a 'refund' of sorts immediately after building it. That would resolve the push issue, and while having an army spawn isn't something I find useful all the time, it's definitely something I'd like when playing tall civs
Rekk
Deity
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Because it's either that or "you can't work specialists at all if you cap unhappiness from other sources". We did the second option before, and people asked for it to be changed to the current method.
Given that working specialists causes unhappiness, the game isn't going to let you work specialists without this cost.
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Rekk
Deity
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Each specialist you work causes one unhappiness.
What happens to your city's unhappiness when you try to add a specialist when you unhappiness equals your population? The answer will never be: nothing. It will either be:
A) you can't work the specialist, you are already at max unhappiness (we tried this, people said it was too limiting)
B) you can work the specialist, but your unhappiness will exceed the population (this is what we are doing now)
What happens to your city's unhappiness when you try to add a specialist when you unhappiness equals your population? The answer will never be: nothing. It will either be:
A) you can't work the specialist, you are already at max unhappiness (we tried this, people said it was too limiting)
B) you can work the specialist, but your unhappiness will exceed the population (this is what we are doing now)
Thanks! That's more clear now
