Do You Have a BS Job?

[Snerk]

Thread will contain some foul language, this is unavoidable as the term is already coined, so to speak.

The topic of BS jobs seems to be trending these days after a recent book release. I've not read but it's on my list. I've seen a lot of articles on the issue lately and it's definitely an interesting topic. Google the term and there will be no shortage of various hits.

https://www.amazon.com/bullfeathers-Jobs-Theory-David-Graeber/dp/150114331X

Spoiler Book cover :

Graeber contends that more than half of societal work is pointless, both large parts of some jobs and, as he describes, five types of entirely pointless jobs:

1. flunkies, who serve to make others feel important, e.g., receptionists, administrative assistants, door attendants
2. goons, who act aggressively on behalf of their employers, e.g., lobbyists, corporate lawyers, telemarketers, public relations
3. duct tapers, who fix problems that shouldn't exist, e.g., programmers repairing shoddy code
4. box tickers, e.g., performance managers, in-house magazine journalists, leisure coordinators
5. taskmasters, e.g., middle management, leadership professionals

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull****_Jobs

It was partly based on several polls where a large percentage of voters felt that their job was pretty pointless and didn't make a meaningful contribution to the world.

Thoughts?

 

[AmazonQueen]

Not atm although I've done a few in the past.
Must be coincidental that the job that contributes most to society is one of the worst paid I've ever had.

 

[MaryKB]

No, I feel my job's important, and I don't fall on your list of five types. I provide critical reporting and trend analysis to my company's executives, and my work's used to measure strategy performance and also new decision making.

 

[Lexicus]

Would compliance work fit under "box ticking"? The bureaucracy that is necessitated by the "free market" generates all kind of nonsense jobs that wouldn't exist in a properly free society.

I read the essay on which this book is evidently based. The essay is pretty good. Graber's book on debt is also pretty good.

 

[MaryKB]

Well maybe my job is bull****, I don't really produce anything, if that's what a real job is, but then even things like police officers would be bull****, right? But isn't managing inefficiency something of value? I mean say you're a farmer, but someone helps you double your produce with your same space and time, and in exchange she asks for a portion of your harvest. Well she isn't really doing anything herself, but she's creating value, right?

 

[Synobun]

Well maybe my job is bull****, I don't really produce anything, if that's what a real job is, but then even things like police officers would be bull****, right? But isn't managing inefficiency something of value? I mean say you're a farmer, but someone helps you double your produce with your same space and time, and in exchange she asks for a portion of your harvest. Well she isn't really doing anything herself, but she's creating value, right?

It's just more labour elitism.

Your job is BS if you hate it and it takes away from the world.

These salt-of-the-earth arguments are really boring.

 

[rah]

As long as they pay you money, I really don't care how it's classified. They can classify it as horsepucky if it's 6 digits.
I tell people what to do, but I have to decide what they should be doing so I guess it's might considered that, but again, see above.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Did the author write the Wikipedia article? What's with the picture of the author? What does that add to the article?

Anyway, a fundamental question before I proceed further: does the author outline a procedure to determine which jobs are necessary? Otherwise, it just sounds like kvetching about jobs he doesn't like. Or a political position masquerading as a socioeconomic theory.

 

[Lexicus]

Well maybe my job is bull****, I don't really produce anything, if that's what a real job is, but then even things like police officers would be bull****, right? But isn't managing inefficiency something of value? I mean say you're a farmer, but someone helps you double your produce with your same space and time, and in exchange she asks for a portion of your harvest. Well she isn't really doing anything herself, but she's creating value, right?

I don't think it's really possible to determine objectively the amount of value produced by anyone. My principle is that as humans we're all entitled to a decent standard of living and that's just the end of the story. Producerism is wack and taken to its logical extreme it leads to involuntary euthanasia, gulags and the like.

 

[Snerk]

To argue that any employment that doesn't directly produce something is BS is nonsense indeed. But striving for or creating greater efficiency in general can be BS, depends on what and how something is becoming more efficient.

 

[Kozmos]

duct tapers, who fix problems that shouldn't exist, e.g., programmers repairing shoddy code

Either your example is bad or the author is bad.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

It's just more labour elitism.

Your job is BS if you hate it and it takes away from the world.

These salt-of-the-earth arguments are really boring.

It's not about glorifying working class jobs. There are many administrative/white collar jobs that are contribute to society and many that don't.
Prime BS job examples would be somebody who works in a health insurance company and whose only job is to contest claims, or an environmental lawyer who helps oil companies get around regulation. The kind of jobs that wouldn't even exist in a well organised society.

 

[rah]

Many people hate their jobs and only do them so their families won't starve or be kicked out into the cold.

 

[Synobun]

It's not about glorifying working class jobs. There are many administrative/white collar jobs that are contribute to society and many that don't.
Prime BS job examples would be somebody who works in a health insurance company and whose only job is to contest claims, or an environmental lawyer who helps oil companies get around regulation. The kind of jobs that wouldn't even exist in a well organised society.

You're disagreeing with me but then you went on to agree with me. Which is it?

 

[Snerk]

I'm sure there's plenty of BS workers out there who don't hate their job.

 

[tjs282]

• flunkies, who serve to make others feel important, e.g., receptionists, administrative assistants, door attendants

• goons, who act aggressively on behalf of their employers, e.g., lobbyists, corporate lawyers, telemarketers, public relations

• duct tapers, who fix problems that shouldn't exist, e.g., programmers repairing shoddy code

• box tickers, e.g., performance managers, in-house magazine journalists, leisure coordinators

• taskmasters, e.g., middle management, leadership professionals

Of those categories, I'm probably closest to a No.(3) (copy-editor of scientific articles).

But the way I see it, I'm helping researchers (from all over the world) present their results and conclusions more clearly and effectively, by fixing their (English) writing and spotting errors/inconsistencies in figures, etc. Not sure how much utility that actually has, but I do think I'm making a small part of the world a better place. And the authors are also usually quite appreciative of my/our efforts, which seems like a good measure of whether a job is worthwhile. Of course, for the most part, they're not actually the ones paying us (directly) for what we do, their institutions do that...

I can't help feeling that Graeber read The Restaurant at the End of the Universe at an impressionable age,though: way back in 1978, Douglas Adams listed most of those occupations (I don't see any Telephone Sanitisers here!) for the Golgafrincham Ark B passengers...

 

[GoodSarmatian]

You're disagreeing with me but then you went on to agree with me. Which is it?

I may have misinterpreted your post.
But Snerk is right, a BSjob is still a BSjob when the person doing it likes it because it pays well and/or is easy.

 

[Synobun]

Ah, the literalist argument where one hyper-focuses on the word "and". Gotcha. I'm out.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Have i ever had a BS job? I've never worked on a farm cleaning up after male cattle so, no.

 

[Snerk]

Ah, the literalist argument where one hyper-focuses on the word "and". Gotcha. I'm out.

Welcome to the internet, please hold. TBF I think I disagree with calling it labour elitism or a salt-of-the-earth argument more than any "and" placement.