Do You Have a BS Job?

Do you have a BS job?

  • Kind of

    Votes: 10 33.3%
  • Not really

    Votes: 15 50.0%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 2 6.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 10.0%

  • Total voters
    30
I haven't read the book, but based on the list provided in the OP, I definitely have a B.S. job (which doesn't appear to be a poll option? 'other'?).
 
The popular view of the moment is that only direct participants in manufacturing production processes are "real" workers and everyone else is just a hanger on. That's the BS.
 
It's weird to me that I'm the only one who wrote "kind of." I mean, ideally we would just have sectoral bargaining agreements and we wouldn't need "strategic researchers" like me to mess with corporations who abuse their workers. So in that sense my job is "kind of" BS.
 
The popular view of the moment is that only direct participants in manufacturing production processes are "real" workers and everyone else is just a hanger on. That's the BS.
I don't know enough about the view of the movement to dispute this but overall I think this is a false assumption.
 
It's weird to me that I'm the only one who wrote "kind of." I mean, ideally we would just have sectoral bargaining agreements and we wouldn't need "strategic researchers" like me to mess with corporations who abuse their workers. So in that sense my job is "kind of" BS.

I addressed the larger issue, which is that by the standard currently popular that makes your job "kind of," the vast majority of jobs are.

From my experience I immediately went to "car salesman." I added no value to the products I sold. The entire car dealership, a thriving small business, added nothing to the value of the products we sold. From a certain standpoint we were an organized leech on the neck of either the manufacturer or the car buying public, depending. But the fact is that people do not want to go to the factory and buy a car off the line. Retail, transportation; those are not BS, they are necessary. For products that aren't sold through direct franchise dealerships there are usually wholesalers, and sometimes jobbers. They also "add nothing," but without them goods do not make it from production to consumption.

Recognizing that jobs aren't BS just because they aren't hands on manufacturing stuff isn't complicated. It's just simple Adam Smith Wealth of Nations stuff.
 
Last edited:
Does creating computer programs for robots count as participating in manufacturing production processes? And I agree with the above from Tim.
 
I don't know enough about the view of the movement to dispute this but overall I think this is a false assumption.

Moment, not movement. There's a whole lot going on at the moment that tends to both support and rely on the idea that the golden age factory worker is the noble ideal we should all be aspiring towards.
 
Does creating computer programs for robots count as participating in manufacturing production processes?

I'd say yes, realistically, but in the currently popular application of the subject it makes you an absolute enemy of those idealized "real workers" on the factory floor so probably beyond just a BS job and into "evil doer" territory.
 
Moment, not movement. There's a whole lot going on at the moment that tends to both support and rely on the idea that the golden age factory worker is the noble ideal we should all be aspiring towards.
Thanks. But I still disagree. It's not the popular view here at least.
 
I'd say yes, realistically, but in the currently popular application of the subject it makes you an absolute enemy of those idealized "real workers" on the factory floor so probably beyond just a BS job and into "evil doer" territory.
Sometimes it's good to be evil. :lol:
 
I think you're sort of missing the point of you just break it down to a clash between a factory-like labourer ideal and the rest.
 
Thoughts?

There is no such thing as a BS job. A job exists because someone somewhere has determined there is a need for it. When there is no longer a need for it, then the job goes away. It really is that simple.

It was partly based on several polls where a large percentage of voters felt that their job was pretty pointless and didn't make a meaningful contribution to the world.

Just because someone "feels" there job is pointless doesn't mean it is. If someone can't see the need for their job or what role it fills within the larger organization, then all that tells me is that particular individual lacks vision and is incapable of seeing the "bigger picture" beyond their own selfish desires.
 
Well, I feel my job is BS only because it's not that important. Nobody would die if it doesn't exist, and the value of the product and the need for it are probably overstated. No one even really comes away happy at the end of it. Feels like it's only a matter of time before too many customers lose interest or faith in the product.

But my job doesn't really fit into any of those 5 criteria listed, so I dunno.
 
Going through his list

  1. flunkies, who serve to make others feel important, e.g., receptionists, administrative assistants, door attendants
  2. goons, who act aggressively on behalf of their employers, e.g., lobbyists, corporate lawyers, telemarketers, public relations
  3. duct tapers, who fix problems that shouldn't exist, e.g., programmers repairing shoddy code
  4. box tickers, e.g., performance managers, in-house magazine journalists, leisure coordinators
  5. taskmasters, e.g., middle management, leadership professionals
Flunkies and goons are largely bs jobs. To see a senior person in some organisations you often have to go past 2 or 3 gatekeepers. 1 would do
"Duct tapers" are pretty essential
4. & 5. are a bit vague
Although he says the problem is worse in the private than the public sector one can see it in the UK where government 'reforms' have meant a vast amount in the amount of paper work required in sectors like health, education and policework. In these areas its often not bs jobs but teachers, nurses and police officers spending a lot more of their time doing bs work filling in forms, ticking boxes etc
 
I think you're sort of missing the point of you just break it down to a clash between a factory-like labourer ideal and the rest.

That is the point. This whole "let's define the BS jobs" business is part of that clash. The process has slopped over onto you in Norway without the underlying context, but the clash between the "real worker with his real job" and the "clearly lesser" burger flippers, paper pushers, etc etc etc is the root of it.
 
I really don't differentiate between a factory worker that follows a process and a burger flipper that just has to learn fewer processes.
 
There is no such thing as a BS job. A job exists because someone somewhere has determined there is a need for it. When there is no longer a need for it, then the job goes away. It really is that simple.
This is a refreshing take on the topic at least. But why are you so sure that human societies will only conjure up jobs there is an actual need for? I think this is demonstrably wrong. But the terms is quite subjective, so rock hard claims are tricky.
Just because someone "feels" there job is pointless doesn't mean it is. If someone can't see the need for their job or what role it fills within the larger organization, then all that tells me is that particular individual lacks vision and is incapable of seeing the "bigger picture" beyond their own selfish desires.
Ok but flipped on it's head why is a job meaningful just because someone feels it is? Why is the bigger picture necessarily a meaningful one?
 
Last edited:
I really don't differentiate between a factory worker that follows a process and a burger flipper that just has to learn fewer processes.

The golden age of manufacturing factory worker learned far fewer processes than the average burger flipper.
 
Top Bottom