[GS] Do you rush a district for State Workforce?

[Bradypus]

I usually always go straight for Early Empire in the start to settle new cities asap. I think I'd only go for a district for State Workforce first if I was stuck on a small island leaving me no space to settle on quickly.

 

[Casualty of war]

It used to be you would get your State Workforce inspiration by conquering a city-state that had built a Holy Site. Or a neighbor who had.

The Tech Tree side track to open up Campus is not a priority until you've built a small army, and at least 1 Settler and Builder. Pottery and Writing don't open up any luxuries or salable resources, just hammer sinks. Explore the Mining-Bronze Working start, and you will be amazed at how much that Encampment's hammer and culture and inspiration and GPP make a difference.

 

[Victoria]

The Tech Tree side track to open up Campus is not a priority until you've built a small army, and at least 1 Settler and Builder. Pottery and Writing don't open up any luxuries or salable resources, just hammer sinks. Explore the Mining-Bronze Working start, and you will be amazed at how much that Encampment's hammer and culture and inspiration and GPP make a difference.

Pottery is quite subtle but a campus is a clear favourite out there.
Bronze working is great for fast attack, early general and in MP is hugely important. In SP campus does pip it slightly with regard to speeding up victory.

 

[Hammurabbit]

A meta observation: This thread shows what a great game Civ 6 is in the early game. So many different ways of playing it and you really need to adapt to circumstances (terrain, neighbors, etc)

 

[kb27787]

I almost never get this one... Opening pottery is bad in terms of safety (actually anything other than animal husbandry seems suboptimal now since you can sell horses)

I just go ahead and get it for plaza (which, when completed gives you the two promotions for Pingala culture)

District slots in your capital are too or precious to waste on holy sites and non-splendid campi

 

[Victoria]

Opening pottery is bad in terms of safety

Nope, not building warriors first is bad in terms of safety, slingers are useless to an early rush. You are opening animal husbandry to get to archers faster for attack purposes is certainly my understanding of the common requirement that way. Everything else is a rationalisation as warriors defending are very strong.
I was not meaning open pottery, many open mining first and I typically do. I will go mining, pottery, campus but it all depends on what will give me the craftsmanship inspiration.

 

[kb27787]

Nope, not building warriors first is bad in terms of safety, slingers are useless to an early rush. You are opening animal husbandry to get to archers faster for attack purposes is certainly my understanding of the common requirement that way. Everything else is a rationalisation as warriors defending are very strong.
I was not meaning open pottery, many open mining first and I typically do. I will go mining, pottery, campus but it all depends on what will give me the craftsmanship inspiration.

So... Warrior first (then builder for agoge?) how would you find the time for archery Eureka then? (that slinger needs to make its way to a barb camp which may take a while) slingers are indeed useless but an archer completely destroys said rush with a warrior for support. Two warriors... I feel you will eventually get strangled to death since you cannot attack the attacking units at all without taking more damage than you deal

 

[Victoria]

So... Warrior first (then builder for agoge?) how would you find the time for archery Eureka then?

You overrate the archery Eureka perhaps? the thing is that once you have Agoge slotted your slingers are very cheap to build and whether defensive or attacking if you want 6 slingers with agoge you may have to delay archery anyway. There is no one strict rule but you sort of answer that I hinted at earlier, you are into the initial archer rush. I personally like to find out what horses and iron I have and get an early settler out. My build order changes depending on circumstance and I have argued its value in many other posts. I can do another long one here if you want. With GS and the latest patch an early rush just is not so common unless playing a small pangea map... do you play that? I find it great we can quibble about best openers while in V things were much more dull.

since you cannot attack the attacking units at all without taking more damage

ahhh... advanced tactics state... do not attack. They will attack you and so you entrench/heal in a good spot and watch them bash against your position while you heal... even a scout can do this vs a warrior and inside your borders it becomes a bit OP. The big change comes when they have archers... that is the tricky moment if you do not have archers then, but that is after T20.... it is very true that the best offence is defence in this case.

 

[UWHabs]

You overrate the archery Eureka perhaps? the thing is that once you have Agoge slotted your slingers are very cheap to build and whether defensive or attacking if you want 6 slingers with agoge you may have to delay archery anyway. There is no one strict rule but you sort of answer that I hinted at earlier, you are into the initial archer rush. I personally like to find out what horses and iron I have and get an early settler out. My build order changes depending on circumstance and I have argued its value in many other posts. I can do another long one here if you want. With GS and the latest patch an early rush just is not so common unless playing a small pangea map... do you play that? I find it great we can quibble about best openers while in V things were much more dull.

ahhh... advanced tactics state... do not attack. They will attack you and so you entrench/heal in a good spot and watch them bash against your position while you heal... even a scout can do this vs a warrior and inside your borders it becomes a bit OP. The big change comes when they have archers... that is the tricky moment if you do not have archers then, but that is after T20.... it is very true that the best offence is defence in this case.

This is now making me re-think my early build order. Usually I go slinger first because I want that archery eureka, but now that I think of it, I often delay archery anyways until right before I need it, so yeah, maybe it would make more sense to get the extra warrior out early. I usually right now go slinger-builder-slinger-settler, but yeah, by the time that second slinger is out he can still be useful for the archery eureka.
Of course, there's also the scout-first option, which is tempting to be able to grab an extra goody-hut or two, and hopefully find a extra city-state or natural wonder. Better for era score, although having one less troop can slow down the killing of nearby barb camps which are also great for era score farming.

 

[Victoria]

slinger-builder-slinger-settler,

If attacked by 4-5 warriors early I suspect I would struggle more with 2 slingers and a warrior than 2 warriors. Once something smacks a slinger and it is on half health it becomes a liability under attack.
However a slinger I will take early if there does seem to be lots of camps because the slinger brings the spearman out of the camp and a scout can pop in and take it. So much depends on what is around you and how strong your start is to me.
A classic example is starting in a lot of 2/2 jungle. A builder is useless for the craftsmanship eureka but I want agoge as fast as I can because it makes you so much more efficient to build your army with it. In such cases a monument can really help, your 2/2 allows getting it fairly quickly and without it it will take an age to get to craftmanship if you do not have a cultural CS nearby or something purply. Also sitting a double encamped warrior on a 2/2 jungle hill in your territory can hold off an entire barb invasion without attacking. You are +17 vs the barb and are healing 15 a turn.
A builder first many great players choose because every production helps early and also buying a tile with extra production is another ploy but i find the builder is built long before I can use all 3 charges and there is a room for a unit before hand like you do. My preference is a scout and one of the reasons is that barbs like scouts and will chase them. In fact a slinger in your city with a scout going around the outside chased by a barb is quite funny but sad in a way. So typically scout builder slinger settler or scout builder settler slinger depending on what I need to do and always keeping an eye out for enemy scouts. My first warrior circles one side of my city and the scout checks the other side when it is built... naturally a low production city I would probably immediately go builder or warrior.
I prefer to be flexible but slinger first is rarely a choice for me, but then I find scouts incredibly useful.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Not really. Early game strategy (Particularly when the game begins at Ancient Era--Four Thousands BCE) is landgrab (Though it's my favorite ones. even though the RF 'Loyalty' rules are quite stinging as it designed to prevent max range expansions into rival sphere of influences). if you don't get a boost for either Astrology, Writing, or Bronze Working (Which you have an easy chance to earn in continents map) then don't go for it so early.

Irrigation is abit harder to get. particularly if you start in a hilly area with no rice nor wheat nearby. but you want extra food and production to train settlers faster, you still need to irrigate.

 

[Victoria]

Irrigation is abit harder to get. particularly if you start in a hilly area with no rice nor wheat.

I'm more interested in inspirations early like foreign trade. The only early eureka I really like is bronze working. My scout can help with that, great for chasing down damaged barb scouts and sitting next to a camp that is being attacked by another civ or CS often ends in a steal, a lone settler or an early holy site I can pillage for a pantheon are all options for a scout and it does not take long until hills do not slow them down. 1 hut and a natural wonder will do it.
But if a scout spots my city (I tend not to build on hills because barbs can see it from 3 tiles away) I'll happily change to a warrior in an instant.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

I'm more interested in inspirations early like foreign trade.

And that player can pop into classics faster and can build commercial hub earlier (and stimulate production on different cities with trade caravans)??
This one also requires player's luck, sometimes player started with this boost VERY EARLY

 

[Leucarum]

Yaay for scout openings. The amount of flexibility an early scout gets you is just gravy.

Here's a somewhat related question. For some of the civs with discounted early districts (korea, russia), there is for sure less of a cost building one early. But how early though do people here try and get their first Acropolis out when playing as Greece? Getting those great writers as early as possible is juicy but it's not a straightforward civic to beeline early in the game when you have a lot of competing priorities... I enjoy both Pericles and Gorgo but am very inconsistent in when I lay down my first acropoles... Curious about what people's priorities are.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I go scout first most of the time. I know that it probably isn't the best plan but I enjoy the explore facet of 4x the most.

 

[Victoria]

Curious about what people's priorities are

A first district for State Workforce is one thing but the more you build districts early the less you produce settlers. And do not forget you also need to build an army and some builders early... so districts just cripples your expansion. From talking to quite a few new starters in the tips n tricks forum this seems to be the most common 'noob' mistake if you are wanting to progress and succeed well at higher levels.

However when talking fact CV's the rules change a bit. You still want to pump settlers and believe it or not going builder, settler, settler, settler is an opening for CV. regardless, the later you leave your theaters the slower your victory... in fact if you can get a few theatres up early with Oracle and Pingala you can deny great writers to pretty much everyone, sometimes even Peter. So you have the choice, go state workforce & 2nd tier gov before expanding settlers... or pushing Drama and Poetry. The latter is better in my books.

For other victories I would not bother beyond the state workforce unless I really had good reason but it is not all about speed.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

I go scout first most of the time. I know that it probably isn't the best plan but I enjoy the explore facet of 4x the most.

Me too. Scout and then Slinger and .... if 2nd population is earned.... settler (and hook it with slinger). then either slinger or warrior.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Me too. Scout and then Slinger and .... if 2nd population is earned.... settler (and hook it with slinger). then either slinger or warrior.

I try to go Scout-builder or scout-settler, but depending on location that isn't always in the cards. As my game changes I'm having a harder and harder time getting in that early district.

 

[Eurritz]

to the OP question: yes, i try to rush State Workforce because it's on the way on Political Philosophy and for now it seems the best way to start a game.

about the initial production: i have nothing set on stone, but i start either with slinger (so i can get archer boost) or go with scout (so i can try era points).

 

[Leucarum]

A first district for State Workforce is one thing but the more you build districts early the less you produce settlers. And do not forget you also need to build an army and some builders early... so districts just cripples your expansion. From talking to quite a few new starters in the tips n tricks forum this seems to be the most common 'noob' mistake if you are wanting to progress and succeed well at higher levels.

However when talking fact CV's the rules change a bit. You still want to pump settlers and believe it or not going builder, settler, settler, settler is an opening for CV. regardless, the later you leave your theaters the slower your victory... in fact if you can get a few theatres up early with Oracle and Pingala you can deny great writers to pretty much everyone, sometimes even Peter. So you have the choice, go state workforce & 2nd tier gov before expanding settlers... or pushing Drama and Poetry. The latter is better in my books.

For other victories I would not bother beyond the state workforce unless I really had good reason but it is not all about speed.

Building early districts was definitely one of my mistakes early on. Locking them in and building them later once my expansion was well under way made a huge difference to my efficiency. Your earlier advice definitely helped

I had been following the expand like crazy and then add in theater squares later program which may explain why my CVs have felt slow...