Do you use Swordsman now?

While I like the idea of iron being revealed a little earlier, something makes me wary of the idea. Maybe because part of the fun of going the Iron Working route is worrying, "Am I actually going to have Iron or will I need to take it from somewhere?"

An option that hasn't be discussed is giving the Swordsman line a natural Cover promotion. This would make them more effective against cities than Pikemen without giving them a straight bonus against cities. It would have the added effect of making them be able to stand at the front lines better in the face of ranged units.

Anyone have thoughts?
 
While I like the idea of iron being revealed a little earlier, something makes me wary of the idea. Maybe because part of the fun of going the Iron Working route is worrying, "Am I actually going to have Iron or will I need to take it from somewhere?"

An option that hasn't be discussed is giving the Swordsman line a natural Cover promotion. This would make them more effective against cities than Pikemen without giving them a straight bonus against cities. It would have the added effect of making them be able to stand at the front lines better in the face of ranged units.

Anyone have thoughts?

those promotions exist... people just need to stop running to March to see how effective the promotions can be (ok, after some patch that adds Cover II back in). Better promotion choices leads to healthier units for upgrades.
 
It would be interesting to hear from the horse's mouth (i.e. the designers) what the rationale was for the changes. I accept MadDjinn's analysis that it makes sense for pikes to be stronger than swords because of the difference in eras, but either way it's completely changed the dynamics of the early game. My guess is that too many people moaned that if you didn't have iron in Vanilla then you were basically doomed to a long defensive spell of turtling, so removing the iron requirement for cats and buffing pikes was seen as a way to make it easier for human players to play aggressive games.

If that's true, it seems like a bad reason to me, and it removes an important strategic dimension: if you don't have iron in G&K, then you don't really need to do anything special to adapt other than build pikes and accept that from muskets on your units will be starting without experience from pre-renaissance battles. And the fact is, as lots of people have said, IW is so expensive and CS is such an appealing tech for other reasons that frequently pikes are actually available before swords, despite coming from a later era.

At least the rare late game resources, oil, alu and uranium, can still be worth fighting a war for, depending how extensive your puppet empire is by that time.

I decided to do an experiment and go for iron no matter what in a game over the weekend, and it worked out pretty interesting. Ended up in the top-middle of a pangea map, with the only available iron in tundra near the south pole, separated from my capital by Bismarck doing his thing spamming cities and units like crazy, Babylon and Genghis. I duly planted a city down there (it didn't get a trade route till like industrial), pumped out the swords pretty damn quick, and had a lot of fun clawing my way through the ensuing mayhem to longswords and safety.

In vanilla, there was an incentive to do that kind of thing: now games have been homogenized - in honesty, it would have been a better strategy (and a more relaxing game) to forget about the iron, build pikes, and expand in a completely traditional way from my base.
 
those promotions exist... people just need to stop running to March to see how effective the promotions can be (ok, after some patch that adds Cover II back in). Better promotion choices leads to healthier units for upgrades.

Yes, I am well aware of that the pomotion exists. I'm saying that if the Swordsman line got those promotions naturally (i.e., you wouldn't have to waste a promotion selecting it), that would make them more viable.
 
My guess is that too many people moaned that if you didn't have iron in Vanilla then you were basically doomed to a long defensive spell of turtling

And that's the failure of listening to such players. There are creative ways of getting iron and/or fighting by other means in the same era (the Strategy forum is filled with such tips) that it increases the decision-making and makes it more strategically fun to play. My fear is that will continue to listen to such complaints and dumb-down the game by revealing iron sooner or making Swords stronger or some other change that doesn't require much thinking.
 
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