Do you want extra early spoiler thread?

[kcd_swede]

I've heard some desire expressed for opening spoiler threads at very early date to aid comparison of the all-important game-starts... like about 1000BC (if you have a different date in mind, please suggest).

I'm considering doing this for BOTM43, and still having the usual 500AD and Final spoiler threads as well... unless it makes all kinds of glitches for the system.

My initial thought is that a number of peolpe are planning to aim at a specific victory condition and are planning to compare results, so this could facilitate that and give the rest of us insight into their strategies. On reflection, I have considered that the last thing heavy competitors would like to do is give any insight to their competition... but this is a Freindly competition, right?

It would also be awkward in what can be revealed... and would have to have very restrictive rules about geography, civs met and resources revealed.... since not everyone will have revealed these things.

Anyhow I am wondering what the general feeling is amongst the players? Do you want a 1000BC spoiler?

 

[da_Vinci]

It would also be awkward in what can be revealed... and would have to have very restrictive rules about geography, civs met and resources revealed.... since not everyone will have revealed these things.

Anyhow I am wondering what the general feeling is amongst the players? Do you want a 1000BC spoiler?

Is there a way to have folks post a spoiler to a hidden area, that is revealed after the game ends (or that folks should only read after they can read the 0 or 500 AD spoiler)? Or maybe the early spoiler is a specified subset of the usual first spoiler? Jesusin might have a template for that ... I think he posted such a while back.

dV

 

[neilmeister]

I'm not fussed if people read the spoilers before they have played. I doubt any of the competitive players would cheat in such an unscrupulous way.

I think opening the spoilers earlier is better than having earlier cutoff dates. This has been tried a few times. Its frustrating when you have finished the game and the spoilers don't open for another week. I don't usually read the spoilers until after I finished.

One potential issue with having 3 spoiler threads is that people will not post in all of them. I know myself that I often don't bother with the first spoiler, but this is because rarely stop at 1ad (or even make a save that I can inspect later).

 

[jesusin]

I've voted yes. A spoiler wirth a very early cut off date can help the community improve the most critical part of the game: the 2-3 initial techs and the 3-4 initial builds.

I would like to see a 3000BC spoiler (or a 2000BC spoiler at most). Restrictions for reading or writing in it should be having got to 1AD or 500AD, as a means to open up what can be said in the early spoiler.

I'd rather have 2 spoilers than 3 because:
- extra work for staff
- most people would just write in 1 or 2 of them, not in all 3
- extra difficulty defining spoiler limits

 

[kcd_swede]

Is there a way to have folks post a spoiler to a hidden area, that is revealed after the game ends (or that folks should only read after they can read the 0 or 500 AD spoiler)? Or maybe the early spoiler is a specified subset of the usual first spoiler? Jesusin might have a template for that ... I think he posted such a while back.

dV

I don't know what is technically possible, but I do know that's outside of my abilities. I think a regular 1AD spoiler with specific request for 3000BC stats is probably the way to go.

I'm not fussed if people read the spoilers before they have played. I doubt any of the competitive players would cheat in such an unscrupulous way.

I think opening the spoilers earlier is better than having earlier cutoff dates. This has been tried a few times. Its frustrating when you have finished the game and the spoilers don't open for another week. I don't usually read the spoilers until after I finished.

One potential issue with having 3 spoiler threads is that people will not post in all of them. I know myself that I often don't bother with the first spoiler, but this is because rarely stop at 1ad (or even make a save that I can inspect later).

Viewing the spoiler threads (from your normal IP address) before you have reached the spoiler date in your submission is verifiable. It is rare and very unlikely to affect the competitive aspects of the game, in my opinion. Probably won't get policed unless there are specific suspicions.

I agree that spoiler threads should open quickly after the game starts, and will proceed to do that right away.

I've voted yes. A spoiler wirth a very early cut off date can help the community improve the most critical part of the game: the 2-3 initial techs and the 3-4 initial builds.

I would like to see a 3000BC spoiler (or a 2000BC spoiler at most). Restrictions for reading or writing in it should be having got to 1AD or 500AD, as a means to open up what can be said in the early spoiler.

I'd rather have 2 spoilers than 3 because:
- extra work for staff
- most people would just write in 1 or 2 of them, not in all 3
- extra difficulty defining spoiler limits

Agree that 3 is too many. I'll try a 1AD spoiler, and encourage folks to concentrate on those things you mentioned. We'll see what happens and can evaluate from there. I don't want to make any radical changes on my own initiative.

The discussion is still open, of course.

 

[da_Vinci]

I've voted yes. A spoiler wirth a very early cut off date can help the community improve the most critical part of the game: the 2-3 initial techs and the 3-4 initial builds.

Maybe the opening post for the usual first spoiler could have a fill-in template that we could cut and paste into our spoilers:

"Early Spoiler Template"

Settling location:
Turn/Date Settled:

Capital:
First build: (item) Completion turn/date:
Second build: (item) Completion turn/date:
Third build: (item) Completion turn/date:
Fourth build: (item) Completion turn/date:

First City:
Location:
Turn settled:
First build: (item) Completion turn/date:
Second build: (item) Completion turn/date:

Research:
First tech (item) Completion turn/date:
2nd tech (item) Completion turn/date:
3rd tech (item) Completion turn/date:
4th tech (item) Completion turn/date:

Jesusin could add more items that he might be interested in.

dV

 

[jesusin]

Maybe the opening post for the usual first spoiler could have a fill-in template that we could cut and paste into our spoilers:

"Early Spoiler Template"

Settling location:
Turn/Date Settled:

Capital:
First build: (item) Completion turn/date:
Second build: (item) Completion turn/date:
Third build: (item) Completion turn/date:
Fourth build: (item) Completion turn/date:

First City:
Location:
Turn settled:
First build: (item) Completion turn/date:
Second build: (item) Completion turn/date:

Research:
First tech (item) Completion turn/date:
2nd tech (item) Completion turn/date:
3rd tech (item) Completion turn/date:
4th tech (item) Completion turn/date:

Jesusin could add more items that he might be interested in.

dV

Looking good. I'd add a "reason why" to every one of the sections.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

I agree that spoiler threads should open quickly after the game starts, and will proceed to do that right away.

The only exception that I would suggest is when there are two concurrent games ongoing for the same XOTM series. It probably doesn't happen a lot, but it can be confusing to remember "which XOTM" is the correct XOTM when there are two sets of Spoiler Threads.

For example, we just recently had a 2-day overlap across 2 BOTM games. In that case, I'd wait until the first game's submission period has ended before opening the Spoilers for the second game.

Actually, maybe there's room for improvement in the Spoiler Thread Titles (and Pre-game Discussion thread titles might as well get the same info) by putting in the name of the Leader that we are playing as in the Thread Titles. It's not like that info is a spoiler.

I would like to see a 3000BC spoiler (or a 2000BC spoiler at most). Restrictions for reading or writing in it should be having got to 1AD or 500AD, as a means to open up what can be said in the early spoiler.

Basically, this suggestion just sounds like using the current system but with asking people to provide more details.

If there is a third Spoiler that I would think would provide the most value, it would be one closer to the 1200 AD point, where players who haven't decided upon a Victory Condition need to start thinking about one. If a player is doing well, they will already have a plan and this Spoiler wouldn't offer them all that much value. The real value would be in helping to tutor players with a weaker game in deciding how to go about making the best of the situation that they have landed in. So many times I have found myself wanting to "consult" with someone on what to do in terms of a Victory Condition, but being limited to only talking about info up to 1 AD or 500 AD has prevented such discussions from occuring.

That said, I voted "no," as the poll did not ask about a later-date third spoiler thread.

 

[jesusin]

Basically, this suggestion just sounds like using the current system but with asking people to provide more details.

hmmmm... Touché!

 

[srad]

I wouldn't use an extra spoiler thread but I really hope that people will use the suggested template in the 1AD spoiler.
Even if the information is provided in a different layout it makes sense to use the template because it helps the interested reader to compare the information from different posts.

 

[kcd_swede]

Actually, maybe there's room for improvement in the Spoiler Thread Titles (and Pre-game Discussion thread titles might as well get the same info) by putting in the name of the Leader that we are playing as in the Thread Titles. It's not like that info is a spoiler.

I like this suggestion. As a player I've had the same problem... I started including the game picture in the start of the spoiler thread so that people should easily recognize which game the spoiler is about, but in the thread title is obviously better because you don't need to open it to see it. And best of all its easy to implement.