DocT01d - MA Modified - The Steppe strikes back (Mongols)

Joined
May 4, 2003
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Location
Köln, Cologne, Colonia. Finally.
Compared to the other games in this series, this one required a lot more work to be set up; nevertheless, I think I found a nice way to incorporate the Mongols as playable Civ; it even works for the AI.
In short, they are blocked for 100 turns, and then get a Cruise Missile type unit that opens the road to the West.

I decided to start it in 843AD as usual, to increase replayablity. However, that means you have to hit ENTER a couple of times before the game really starts.

Here are all necessary files (instructions in a readme file).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Middle_Ages_Mongols.zip
 
The Steppe strikes back (or again?)

Here’s a look at our units right now:


Real_Start.jpg




‘nuff said.
Keshiks are 5.3.3, Defensive Bombard, Blitz, no upkeep, ignore MP of Hills and Mountains. And they have another nice ability...
Unfortunately, we cannot build them at will…


Variant rules:

Surprisingly (considering their image) the Mongols valued trade extremely high.

Tolerance:
When approaching a city, they usually offered pretty acceptable conditions for surrender (and sticked to their offers!).
That means: If a city surrenders (= we capture it without any casualties), the citizens must be treated honourably – no razing, no deliberate starving/whipping to get rid of foreigners.

…and Terror:
But if that generous offer wasn’t accepted, they usually razed cities of new enemies…
That means: Any casualties during capturing the 1st city of a Civ will result in razing that city.
And, for historical accuracy, Baghdad must be razed as well.

We will establish no embassies. We expect those minor nations to come to us! And we will incite no alliances; if we’re asked, we may accept.


Goal:
Domination!

To make this feasible, conquest VPs have been reduced to half.

What you need to know:

• War Council/ White Horde produce a Keshik every 6 turns. Golden Horde @ 5.
• In the next turn, you’ll get a way to start :hammer: .
• This game: Poland is unusually strong (3 Wonders!). Germany has the HRE. Byzantium seems to have not fought at all so far. We are already at war with Turks and Abbasids (I didn’t cave).

Roster:

Deceased Horse – up
Vizurok – on deck
Doc – just played 99 turns ;)

The save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Mongols1140AD.zip
 
Great Khan,
The two columns of the Golden Horde have nearly reached the lands of the west. Blocking the way deeper into the land beyond the steppes are mighty empires; the Mameluke* Caliphate, the Byzantine Empire, and the Ottoman Turks. The Golden Horde is mighty, but we are stretched thin. No matter; we have persevered in the face of overwhelming numbers before and will do so again. 32 companies of Keshiks now stand ready. I have authorized the training of local tribesmen as auxiliaries. They do not have the life-long experience and skill of a Mongol, but they shall aid us in taking holding the land we conquer from the Caliphate and the Turkish Horde. Per your orders, we are in the process of setting up a Chinese bureaucracy, but this project is many years from completion. In the south, Tamur faces the Mamelukes and the Turks serpate from my own troops by the Ottomans horsemen. Our bases remain impregnable, protected by miles of barren steppes that the peoples of this land cannot hope to cross and survive.

Sabutai
1140 AD

Note: I will refer to the Abassids as the Mamelukes for flavor purposes

Preturn: Well, we sure are in an intrusting strategic situation. We are faced with an immediate war with the Mamelukes (Abassids) in the south, and the Poles and the Kievan Rus box us in up north. No one will sell us maps right now, so we will be fighting blind for awhile. Preliminary plan is to forge an empire up north, smashing the various Scandinavian colonies the AI likes to build, while fighting defensively in the Middle East, depending on how much resistance the Horde ends up facing. Hit enter.

IBT: The Poles finish ROBIN HOODS in Wroclaw. I hadn’t realized just how far along the tech tree they’d gotten; I hope we won’t be facing Pikemen right out the gate. Our two cities get culture expansions and pop their missile units out.


Turn 1: Destroy the two ‘Great Distance’ units holding us in. I find the animation pretty hilarious. Declare war on the Poles. The inhabitants of Warna dare to defy the horde, slaying a Keshik. They pay the ultimate price, and the Golden Horde burns their city to ashes! We also get a (rather useless) Golden Age as a result. In the south, the people of New Damascus wisely surrender to the Horde. The city controls an iron source (we can always sell it off) and will make a good forward base anyway. Striking across the desert wastes, the horde smashes the defenders of New Medina, whose citizens wisely surrender as well. Bad news as well: A company of Vassal Cavalry spots a regular pikemen defending an Abassid city. Didn't know we were this far along, although I should be used to the demigod tech pace by now. Unprepared for the lightning speed of the Golden Horde, two Mameluke laborer battalions are caught in the open and enslaved.

IBT: The Mamelukes (ansar warriors) themselves move up to counter-attack, but in their arrogance remain in the open. Do we strike now, without knowing how many follow in their wake?

Turn 2: A single Keshik blitzes New Mosul; there was only a single pike in it along with a spear. Promote to Elite. Kill the two Mamelukes (ansar warriors) approaching New Medina, one promotion, and one enslavement. The Elite goes after a pair of exposed workers, running into an Assassin. The Assassin is enslaved, the workers captured. Two more Ansars fall in Mesopotamia, 1 enslaved. Hattin falls next, and 2 more units are enslaved. A longbow company is seen in the fighting; Swiss mercs could be only a tech away! In the north, our Keshiks spot a Turkish settlement and move to attack it next turn. Another Polish town is targeted as well.

IBT: The Caliphate is craftier than we expected-their counter thrust comes not in the form of a cavalry charge, but in a swarm of Assassins are are. Our Keshik’s retreat ability and decent defense means we do ok, but our offensive force in Mameluke territory is nearly overwhelmed by sheer numbers. We NEED a way to deal with Invisible units. MAJOR miscalculation on my part, I totally forgot how much the AI loves invisible units and spent all my time planning for an Ansar attack.

Turn 3: Kill 3 Assassins. Move three units with Blitz do make nice patrol units. At New Baghdad, an Elite Keshik slays a defending longbow and:


Ogedai! Keshik army time. Perfect timing.

In the north, Turkish Sliven and Polish Torun fall before the horde. Karakorum, our first self-built city, is founded near the ruins of Warna.

IBT: Assassins and Longbows counterattack. Lose a total of one vassal cav, thanks to the retreat ability.

Turn 4: Raze a Polish city halfway off the map. More skirmishes with the Mamelukes I the Middle East. Spot another Turkish border, but I think that the horde will take the German City of Hannover first…

IBT: Lose two regular Vassal Cavalry to Abassid counters. Torun and New Medina continue rioting; can’t starve the resistors, they surrendered.

Turn 5: Capture Polish Denizil, enslaving two cavalrymen. Trade WM+10 gold to the Germans for contact with the Celts, then declare war on them and take Hanover. They surrender, and shall be spared the wrath of the Horde. Oghedi forms the Golden Horde in New Damascus, the sword that shall cut the throat of the Mamelukes! Speaking of Mamelukes, kill 4 Assassins, two longbows, one archer, and one pikeman. Our attack on Basra destroys the barracks. Poland will now give us Castle Building and two workers for peace. Buy Castle Building from the Celts for 250 gold to open up more valuable techs, higher up in tech tree.

IBT: Lost 3 Keshiks to Mameluke counters. All offensive forces are being pulled back next turn; the army is definitely needed. The Bulgars ask us to leave-they are Gracious towards us, maybe because their leader is the long-lost twin of the Great Khan.

Turn 6: Entering the next age has the side effect of opening up the Arab tech tree for us; I remember this being in the scenario introduction but had forgotten about it. Presumably, we can build Assassins if we get the tech, which would obviously be better than waiting until warrior monks for a unit that can spot, invisible. Rjazan and Merv switched to libraries. The Poles will give us Early Siegecraft and Code of Laws for peace now. The Golden Horde attacks Basra, slaying two pikemen, enslaving one.

IBT: Usual Assassin attacks. The Germans sign the Castilians into an MA against us. We’re real scared, Otto.

Turn 7: The horde has begun to penetrate into Turkish territory. A pike and a spear are slain in Aydin. Two spears slain in a German Siberian colony, which has its name, covered by the fog. Slay 4 Assassins and 1 longbow. The Golden Horde takes Basra:

Raze the city. It will just culture flip and we have settler sitting around waiting for something to do.

IBT: More Mamelukes counters attack, lose 1 vassal cavalry. They are attacking with normal archers now for some reason. The Germans found Bonn; down in the Middle East near where New Baghdad was razed.

Turn 8: Found Ta-Tu, up in the Russian Steppes. Aydin falls to the Horde. Plovdiv, the German Mystery City falls next. Two Bulgar swords stand right next to it; the Bulgars must be at war with the Germans, explaining their attitude towards us right now. Kazan is founded near the ruins of Basra. The Golden Horde slays the defenders of Mameluke Ascalon, taking the city. Keshik armies are just insane! We keep it; it is not suffering from the same cultural pressure Basra was. An overzealous Keshik spots Baghdad to the south; uh-oh, not only are more longbows moving up, but also Baghdad is now defended by a veteran Swiss Mercenary. Buy Jihad from the Cordovans for 160 gold +WM.

IBT: The Germans sign the Magyars to an MA against us. Oh well, one more steppe city and some slaves for the Horde.

Turn 9: Vezpren and Stuttgart fall to the horde. Neither city is worth anything, but since we are going for domination. Antalya is next.

Turn 10: Kill 5-6 Assassins or so. The Golden Horde is on the road to Baghdad. The people of that wondrous city can hear the thunder of hooves fast approaching, and pray desperately to Allah for salvation. But no salvation is coming, for the Mongols are demons! MUWHAHAHAHHAHAAHHA. Ahem. Antalya is attacked. One Keshik dies, the next slays a pike and reveals…and unfortified Swiss Merc. Uh-oh. He slays another Keshik before falling, but we capture the size-11 city. Iron, Horses, and 50 Gold to the Kievan Rus for Code of Laws and WM. From the way their Berserks are acting, the Rus are probably at war with the Turks as well (they are polite towards us as well) We now have a complete strategic picture; although this will make the game run even slower. The map reveals that the Poles have no more cities in range right now, so we might as well take peace. Peace and 95 gold to the Poles gets Map Making and Early Siege craft for us.

Notes: Doc, this was a real blast to play, and probably the best of the middle ages modified maps so far just because it is so different from a normal game on this map. We will definitely want to keep up the pressure on the Turks and the Mamelukes. These are the big dogs, and we want to link up our burgeoning empire at some point. Baghdad and Medina are all that stands between the Mameluke Core, and us and we have already reached the Turkish second ring. The Turks are a lot bigger, and although they don’t have any were near the troops that the Mamelukes have they are definitely still a threat, although I have yet to see any Siphai.

The Apocalypse has begun!
 

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:thumbsup:

Re: tech pace

I made a couple of test runs, and in none of those the AI advanced so fast; could be because there are 4 strong Catholic Civs (Poland cascaded to the Bayeux Tapestry when Regensburg built the HRE, and the HRE wasn't built later then ususal; and they also completed Notre Dame, which also means they for sure had a GA), but IMHO mainly because the major powers were at peace with each others all the time. Usually we just see Pikes in the Abbassid core, with Spears elsewhere.

Re: Tech Trades
When you bought CB, did this reset the research on Chinese Admin? I still haven't figured out when exactly that bug hits.

Re: Assassins
They hurt :) Pretty realistic, right?
But since the White Huns (most likely Mongols) at that time defeated the muslimic Moghul Empire, I thought we should have access to Arab Learning as well.

Re: Armies
Keshik Armies are incredible; however, given the limited supply of Keshiks we have, I think it's better to form no more than one on each theatre, and make VC armies after that. With the Blitz, we should get enough Leaders...

Re: Mameluk
IIRC, the Fatimids became the Mameluks later; the Mongol capture of Bagdhad lead to the collapse of the Abbassid Empire, but the Mameluks were the only nation that defeated us!

Destroy the two ‘Great Distance’ units holding us in. I find the animation pretty hilarious
You mean the jumping Hwacha? I used William during early testing, now that looked weird :crazyeye:

this was a real blast to play
Glad you like it; I also had a lot of fun with that Blitzkrieg.

A technical hint: You can link to the jps (just type and the closing tag); maybe you know that already, and the upload server was down, but just in case you weren't aware of this.

Over to Vizurok.
[i]Be careful with our Keshiks, that's about the only crucial mistake one can make![/i] And don't hesitate to mobilize...

Important: [B]THIS GAME IS 1.22![/B]

BTW, what's the VP score?

[B]A note for Lurkers as well:[/B]
I tried to make it as much historically (geographically isn't feasible) correct as possible, but I have problems to get more information here. If someone knows better city names, and could tell me how the 'Northern Horde' was called (I know the colors mean directions, with the Golden Horde the Western one), please help me out...
 
We have around 6500 VP's if I remember correctly, and the Abbassids are in the lead with around 8500. We may hit the VP limit before domination; even with the point values lowered, those Turkish and Abbassid size 12 cities are worth quite a few points. We are 3/2 in terms of land and pop, with the Byzantines at around 10/19 or so (I may have reversed the values, so be sure to check).

Re Armies: I'm not so sure about that; Keshik armies can actually attack more times (4) than three individual Keshiks can, and are far more difficult to kill. A vassal cav army would be much more vunerable and have one less move. I'd say we need to see just how many leaders end up getting, though.
 
romeo, judging from your last post iin the magyar thread I was under the impression you will start it.
The first 99 turns are no great deal, just build a couple of Spears, Settlers and Vasal Cav. Don't buy maps (saves time at large), and be careful with unit support.

Btw, what are 'Brownies'? :) (I'm sure I understood what you meant, though)


Gogf, Vizurok: Please check in. If you cannot join, please post that as well; we'll have to discuss then if we only fill one roster, or try to get more participants.
 
Doc, I would start the other roster but I am unsure how to create a link thread. The whole message board process is very new to me. Is their a thread that tells us how to get started on creating a thread?
I have also had my game time greatly limited by real life. The unexpected is becoming very common around here.
BTW, Brownies are a rech chocolate cake very common in the Midwest USA. They have about 500 calories per piece, if made correctly, and are very sweet. Most people cannot resist them, and it is a very common analogy where I live to say like a fat kid on a pan of brownies. If a person likes brownies, it is almost like drugs, for what they will do to get, keep and eat as many as they can.
I've been known to attack a pan of brownies before, usually after physical labor or sports practice.
 
Doc: Checking in as you requested. What was your technique to delay the Mongol start? Is it feasible to use this mod but play as another civ having to fend off these hordes?

I'm not on 1.22 (we're using 1.15 for the AOD SG I'm in), so I'll just lurk during this one. But I'll be around if you want to chat during it.
 
The Mongols are trapped for the first 100 turns in their two starting cities. Since Tundra is impassible in this scenerio, it was easy to set up the cities so that there is only one route out of the ice. Until turn 100, the mongols are sealed behind two "Great Distance" 1.30.0 units. On turn 100, both cities generate a bombardment unit (a jumping Kamikaze H'wacha in this case, which has pretty hilarious animation), essentially a cruise missile with a bombardment of 100, lethal bombard, and a high enough rate of fire to kill the great distance units. The Mongols themselves control two of these units as well, making exterminating them totally impractical. You can play as any other civ; the main differance the Mongol prescance makes is weakening the superpower Eastern Civs, especially the Turks and Abassids, who now have to defend their flanks from the horde.

Doc, in future round we may want to go down to 5 turns each; they've already done so in the other game. What do you think?
 
Agree on the 5 turns where appropriate (no need to play only a couple of peaceful recovery turns); I did need some days for my 10...will upload soon.

Gobi: Most of the time went into making the Mongols working for the AI; for a human, it would have been easy to just agree on not moving until 1120. But the AI will wreck havoc as well in turn 100 (which is a bit too early, but there was no way to further delay it).
The general idea is:
Mongols are blocked in 2 isolated towns until turn 100. Keshiks are really strong (especially they have 'Blitz'), but cannot be built - instead they are autoproduced by 3 Small Wonders, 2 of those are also FP equivalents (one already placed on the map).
The best unit you can build are Vasal Cavalry at 4.2.2, which are also enslaved by Keshiks.
Mongols have their own flavor tree, and a Gov of their own - Khanate (similar to Fascism). Most Wonders are now Gov-specific.
 
Most elaborate - Very Creative!

Somehow I don't think we could have released the Conquests version of Middle Ages just like this however!

I'm glad to see we now have Middle Ages games with the Mongols in them. As it should be. Sounds like winning as Kievan Rus in this one would be most tricky!
 
Well, I don't think the AI would play as them correctly. They would through everything they had at the great distance unit, and then kill themselves in the assault. At least that's my guess.
 
@gogf: No, they won't. Be assured, I tested it. The AI does not attack full HP units of such a high defense. With Def=10, they try it. Def=30, no. AI vs. Barbs isn't completely stupid, unlike Barbarians attacking everything on the NW-SE axis.
The tricky part was to get the AI using the Cruise Missile - but the solution is the shield cost of the target; must be a lot higher than the Cruise Missile (used 100x).

@Gobi: Agreed, especially the 2 city locations look rather odd on the map; would have been rather confusing to the non-fanatics ;)
 
Mongols 1170AD

Inherited – looks fine.

IBT:
Loose a VC to an Abbassid, and a Keshik to a Turkish Assassin.
Merv (Library) -> VC

Turn 1: 1173AD
Slay a number of Assassins. Capture Turkish Mugla (the Rus killed some defenders during the interturn). Army kills a Swiss at Bagdhad (I hope the Abbassids have no Iron, thus killing them one by one should work).
IBT:
Denizli flips back; only 1 VC lost.

Turn 2: 1176AD
Recapture Denizli. Capture Iznik.
IBT: Now that is ugly – Antalya flips back. No Keshiks lost, but the auto-defenders are Sipahi!

Turn 3: 1179AD
Recapture Antalya. Move every single Keshik out of towns. Magyar stack of assorted trash approaches.
IBT: Couple of attacks on stray VCs, no losses. A lot of Magyars show up.

Turn 4: 1182AD

Bagdhad.jpg


(lost some VCs anyway)

IBT:
Someone signs the Norwegians against us
2 Keshiks arrive

Turn 5: 1185AD
Make peace with the Abbassids for Assassination, have to throw in 250gp. The Turks have captured some Byzantine cities and have Iron again; we should concentrate on them now.
Make peace with the Magyars (costs us Early Siege), their Swordsmen stacks would have simply overwhelmed us.
IBT:
…and the Swedes join the dogpile; a more serious threat, they have some cities pretty close.
Our 1st Assassin finishes.

Turn 6: 1188AD
Just when you need it:

Jochi.jpg


…and a Vassal Cav arrises as well.
Capture Salonika. Comes with 6 Slaves and a Hospital (though the later doesn’t produce culture; wonder if it will once the majority is Mongol).
Capture Bonn (that German town next to Merw).
Found Almarikh to replace Bagdhad.

Turn 7: 1191AD
North:
Capture Edrine, destroy a Treb; never seen the game thus advanced at that time.

South:
Capture the former Byzantine town of Riza, spawn MGL Chagatai. Will reach and pillage the Turkish Iron next turn.

Make peace with Germany, 220gp get us Medieval Combat. Make peace with Castile, they have nothing to give.

Turn 8: 1194AD
North:
Slay Swedish Settler Combo. Form Jochi’s Army. 1st attack on Patzinak.

South:
Form Chagatai’s Vasall Army. Pillage the Turkish Iron.

IBT:
Byzantines capture Bingol, the Turkish Iron city.

Turn 9: 1197AD
North:
Capture Patzinak, loose one Keshik.

South:
Golden Horde captures Ankara without losing a single HP.

IBT:
Turkish Assassin kills Keshik. Longbow retreats another one.
Byzantines help us by throwing us out, a number of units get a lift to Ankara.

Turn 10: 1200AD
South:
Capture Istanbul.

North:
Slay 2 Longbows and an Assassin.

Notes:
Never garrison any city with the slightest flip risk with Keshiks; if redlined Keshiks need Barracks to heal, that already is a gambit. Never attack a Vet merc in a city with anything but Armies.
Chinese Administration will come in next turn, switch all builds in remote cities to Postal Stations, and whip them where possible. We need the culture. And, once the few Temples and Libraries are finished, mobilize.
Strategy: Try to get a few more Turkish cities, including Ghuzz, make peace for techs, and wait for the Byz/ Rus to eliminate the Turks.
Maybe try to get Swedish Linkoping, we need the Furs.
Then, build up some forces, and either get those annoying Byz cities in our first ring, or fight the Abbassids again.

Score:
13855 Mongols, 11070 Turks, 10180 Abbssids; couple of Civs in the 8000-9000VPs.

5/5 pop/area, with the Byzantines at 13/10

F31.jpg


At least, unit support won’t kill us…
(VCs don’t show up when they were enslaved instead of built)

The save

Now, Vizurok?

This game would need at least one more participant!
 
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