DocT4-How to Rise as a Ruler (RaR Training SG)

denyd said:
Nice work on Persia :hammer: Tinkez,

DocT: What's the current roster?

Are there any upcoming techs/units to target?

After Persia is is there a logical next target? (Japan maybe)
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1) plarq, then me.
2) Modern Legal System. Dunno if we have Coal, btw. RRs, of course. And City Planning as well as Mass Production later.
3) Logical Target would be Celts, perhaps, if they manage to stay in the Tech race.
 
Doc Tsiolkovski said:
2) Modern Legal System. Dunno if we have Coal, btw. RRs, of course. And City Planning as well as Mass Production later.
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We have 3 coal sources. Modern legal system is already discovered and we have 3 district courthouses. Supreme court will be ready in 5 turns. SELL THE DISTRICT COURTHOUSES ONCE SC IS READY!
 
Press Enter
IBT:Persian city stop resisting. Chambo Artist Guild->Market, Pompeii Granary->Monastery,Santander Monument->Laborer,Asturias Temple->Library,Longoro Harbor->Temple.American is building JSB.
Turn 1:Lower Research rate as the last turn of ToE.Which city is on prebuild of ToE?Fight in Hamadan,lose two Vet Elephants,enslave one pike and get 7 workers.Kill 2 spears in Antioch,two Cuirassiers redlined.
IBT:Arabs said he don't like spice-gem deal,he wants spice,engineering and 100g.OK.Barcelona Windmill->School of Scribes.Bamda Library->Academy.Vitoria Library->Major Port.
Turn 2:Whack Persian pike and MDI,capture Antioch.ToE still not in?The messed-up Scientific Age!
IBT:We learned ToE and produce another SGL!I put research on Industrialization.Rome Artist Guild->Monasterry,Gartokh,Army->Army.Korean is building Sistine.
Turn 3:Grouping units to Persepolis.
Turn 4:Buy wool from Japan costs us 4 techs.Capture Persepolis.
Turn 5:"Supreme Court,never expires" in Leh!Start an Arena.Celts landed Pioneer Pair in former Persia
Turn 6:Capture Bactra
Turn 7:Capture Tyre
Turn 8:"National Library,+50% Research,allow National Archive,Never Expires" in Lhasa!
Turn 9:We discover HE!We'll build railways!WW kicks in,lux to 10%
Turn 10:National Gallery in Sikkim.2 cities riot.Cannot fight in that situation,take peace with 3 Persian cities.

We lack worker(Laborers) terribly.
 
Tibet, 1250AD.

Looks good. Nice idea to build the Holy City, I almost always forget that.

Madrid is definitely the city to build Laborers off.
Locate and sell our DCs; they do indeed save not a single shield, and maybe 2gpt each.

NOTE: Because of the bugged SGA, I’ll take the liberty to reload if I do not get a Tech the turn it is expected.

Will use the SGL to rush Edisonss Lab (another 2 advanced wonder, horribly expensive) in Sikkhim.

No, works fine, get Electricity.

Turn 1: 1255 AD
We’re missing quite a number of useful wonders; East India Company, ToE, Taj Mahal (doubles Shrines) mainly.
Our best cities lack Factories.
Korea has 5.4k Gold…sell them 4 techs. Wang enters IA, but gets nothing new (ToE).

Run most of our Workers to our core.

Turn 2: 1260 AD
Keep rushing culture, Laborers and Factories.
IBT:
Medicine-> Sanitation

Turn 3: 1265 AD
Notice we still need the Banks for the Central Bank; in fact we do not even have 5 Marketplaces so far.
IBT:
Korea declares on America.

Turn 4: 1270 AD
Looks like the SGA is finally over, Sanitation now needs a turn longer.

Turn 5: 1275 AD
Zzz…
IBT:
Sanitation->Steel
“Our Civilization’s Age of Scientific Discovery has ended. So say our Analysts…” Idiots.

Turn 6: 1280 AD
Zzz..

Turn 7: 1285 AD
IBT:
Steel -> City Planning

Turn 8: 1290 AD
Turn off research completely, and rush Edison’s Lab.
IBT:
Edison done; pick City Planning and Replaceable Parts.

Turn 9: 1295 AD
We have several Rubber. Start with Parks.
Slowly set research path towards Mass Production.

Turn 10: 1300AD


NOTES:
*We do by no means need a faster tech pace now. Mass Production/the Crystal Palace is about the only tech we need, and this tech will expire Angkor What. Please have a good prebuild for the CP at hand; FP/SP city. The capital is too shield-poor.
*We can finally plant forests. This also allows to settle a few semi-useful tundra towns.
*There are a few places for cities left on our coastline.
*Every city with a Factory needs a Park by all means (those also give culture, btw). After that, there will be only one pollution there, so get Coal Plants as well. Even better, build Parks before Factories.
*Get up enough Banks.
*Keep a few low-commerce cities on miltirary, and keep upgrading (we have the cash, we only need to shuffle units to cities with Barracks)

But:
We’re making around 650cpt, and are at 21000 ;)
In other words, we’ll win in about 40 turns.

The Save
 
The best effect of Scientific Age is that you can't have it for second time! :lol:
@DocT:I saw your name in some Civ-Fan site in Deustch,it's lovely to see a familiar name in lots of unknown words.The site is civforum.de.How are you getting along with your folks?Is that more comfortable posting in your native tongue?I'm bored of Chinese sites of Civ-Fan so I choose civfanatics.
@Team:the roster?
 
Roster:

DocT -just played
Denyd - Up
Pfeffersack -still disabled?
Tinkez
Disenfrancised
plarq

Knappagh1 - disappeared?

plarq, Civforum.de is really a nice site. Limited number of 'veterans' there, but enough to get a good discussion. Newbies are usually completely new, though. And, the language filter isn't as limiting there - we have very little problem with that.
Since I do not own a German version of Civ3, I sometimes don't know what exactly they're talking about, nor can I participate in SGs/GotMs without major work; and I prefer Civ discussion in English - many concepts cannot be translated, like 'pop-rushing' (the German meaning would be subject to CFC's language filter ;) ). And, the sheer number of users makes CFC my prefered site anyway.

The funny thing is, my real last name in fact sounds Chinese; if I google for it, I get thousands of Chinese entries, including the 'prophet' of Falun Gong...
 
DocT said:
like 'pop-rushing' (the German meaning would be subject to CFC's language filter ).
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In my language,we call it Killing Pop(Or something like that)).And I don't like Chinese sites simply because they're not professional.They don't hold a tactic discussion really,introduce techniques only.And they don't have any variants or prohibition,of course they don't even have the tech called "GOTM" or "SG".The best thing out of these sites is they translate some civfanatics' strategy articles,so I landed on this site now. ;)

DocT said:
Since I do not own a German version of Civ3, I sometimes don't know what exactly they're talking about
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I once owned a Chinese version,but I abandoned it once I land on Civfanatics,I like to see the original text,and the translation is really bad.Also I think there're political reasons that they modified some introduction in civilopedia.That's why I don't like to use mother tongue in game discussions,also Chinese forum sites are full of spams(They post spams in strategical articles)

Edit:I registered in civforum.de although I don't know German.
Edit:In my Chinese version(by Kuankuan.net),they call TOW "Anti-Tank Infantry",Modern Armor "Tank for Major Battle",Radar Artullery "Self-Supported Artillery".They also call "Free Aristry" Artistry,obviously they're afraid of the word "free";call "Military Tradition" Military System.So I abandoned them to get a clearer description,also it's more easier to communicate with people around the globe.
 
I got it but won't be able to play until tomorrow night. I'll check back tomorrow with plans for my turnset.
 
Not sure if anyone is interested, but in the RaR game CZ4, we are down to 3 players, myself, LKendter, and Macdandee.

We could really use another player if anyone is interested. Its essentially a NOW (non-oscillating war) game so a good bit of fighting.

Apologies for inturrupting the game, but asking in other RaR threads seemed appropriate.
 
I through a couple of very peaceful turns so far. Not much to report.

We now know social darwinism, have bunch of parks started and I also started a couple of markets. I also upgraded a some veteran defenders from AA units to current. If I have the time I'll probably replace the conscript & regular defenders with veterans.

Are there any amphibious units available to the AI yet? I noticed we had a couple of undefended coastal cities, that could be screaming take me to the AI.

Just a couple of observations so far.

1. There are so many buildings available, you have to consciously select to build units.
2. The AI seems to be overwhelmed with the choice on what to research.
3. The fact that America has not met Japan at this late date suggest that the AI's ability to explore is being overridden by some other priority.
4. Without a sound strategy on unit upgrading (which the AI does not seem to have), after the AA, the AI seems to get caught fighting with mostly outdated units.
5. Increasing production seems to be a more important factor than increasing population (after the early game)
6. Only doubling movement on roads really slows units down a lot.
7. Unless you place restrictions on the human player, I don't see most below demi-god games getting to modern warfare.
 
1) Yes. Fully intentional, you have to focus your cities. For this game, the military cities were those in the middle of our landmass, between Gartokh-Rome-Santiago.
2) Not really. What to build, partially. What to research sin't as hard for them, they have clear preferences here. And I don't think RaR sidetracks the AI anywhere near to the Nationalism->Fascism path in unmodded.
3) True. A big problem, the AI builds far to few ships on the low to mid levels. I generally suggest to play RaR on Pangea, a lot more interesting.
4) No. If they have the cash, they upgrade like mad. ANd with the rate caps, mid-size AIs are much more likely to have the cash - unless the Human keeps bankrupting them (like we did).
5) Yes. An all-Grassland start is about the worst thing you can get, regardless of any Food boni. For the AI, bad luck. For the Human - that's why your starting tribe has move 2 ATAR.
6) This helps the AI, surprisingly. You cannot seperate the fast movers a easily from the defenders. And you cannot bring in your own defenders as easily when you capture a city. And, that is why I use Marines so much.
7) I don't even see Deity games reaching Modern Warfare (Armors maybe, but nothing really modern, like MAs or Helis).

Amphibious units: Lots of. Korea isn't much behind (Colonial Marines), and any Swords/Spears/Warriors are amphibious anyway.
 
Turn Log 5

Turn 0 – 1300 AD – Spend about 1000g to upgrade some defenders – Spend about 400g to hurry a couple colonists

IBT: America demands Japanese contact, but I politely decline – Madrid colonist->park – Pasagarde barracks->rifle – Barcelona colonist->park – Gartokh laborer->park – Chamdo laborer->park – Cumae granary->town clock – Bactra academy->forge – Lhari toll house->park – Gherze rifle->market – Pamplona basilica->park – Tyre academy->forge – Nyima windmill->park – Zanda major port->temple – Namco port->forge – Zohak laborer->academy

Turn 1 – 1805 AD – Build lots of railroads – Upgrade a couple of defenders

IBT: Trade Spices & Camels to Arabs for Gems – Discover Social Darwinism research Grand Strategy (need to complete Taj Mahal in FP city due in 4 and all pre-build of Crystal Palace to get going and 3 factories to be finished) – Pompeii laborer->park Bamda toll house->windmill – Vitoria temple->basilica

Turn 2 – 1310 AD – Settler founds Zaqen – Build some more rails and upgrade a couple more defenders – Switch Gartokh to Palace as Clauswitz’s pre-build

IBT: Embargo against us by Persia & America ends – Persepolis barracks->forge – Rome market->park – Barcelona laborer->park – Toba toll house->basilica – Jaen forge->wind mill – Gomo bazaar->market – Banbar academy->monument

Turn 3 – 1315 AD – My new theme song is “I’ve been working on the railroad” – also a couple of upgrades

IBT: Swap our TM to Russia for her WM + 2g – England & Korea sign against America – Discover Grand Strategy research The Corporation – Lhasa bank->Central Bank – Toledo major port->basilica – Susa forge->temple – Kumbum market->park – Cozhe rifle->rifle – Barga major port->temple – Trade Elephants + Tropical Fruit + Warrior Code + Mounted Archery to Japan for Wool

Turn 4 – 1320 AD – More railroads, more upgrading – switch pre-build to Clauswitz’s due in 14

IBT: Madrid laborer->wind mill – Sikkim builds East India Company->park – Seville granary->water mill – Leh builds Taj Mahal->Universal Suffrage (same price as Crystal Palace due in 22) – Zayu toll house->wind mill – Iekundo bank->basilica – Murcia water mill->park – Barkhal rifle->rifle – Banbar monument->major port

Turn 5 – 1325 AD – For a change of pace, I chop some jungle along with railroading & upgrading

IBT: Iekundo basilica->factory – Golmud bank->park – Valencia water mill->park – Pamplona park->factory – Santander artist guild->water mill – Asturias granary->academy – England starts JS Bach’s

Turn 6 – 1330 AD – More jungle chopping, railroading and upgrading and this time I decide to hurry a couple of buildings along

IBT: Celts & America sign against England – Celts start Sistine Chapel – Celts start JS Bach’s – Celts starts Encyclopedia – Arabs & Korea sign against America – Discover The Corporation research Refining and Shakamuyni is born – Rome park->factory – Sikkim park->monument – Toledo basilica->town clock – Susa temple->harbor – Chamdu park->factory – Cumae town clock->park – Gerze market->park – Rutog artist guild->wind mill – Vitoria basilica->park – Toba basilica->park – Barga temple->basilica – Zanda temple->wind mill – Jomda academy->forge – Namco forge->wind mill – Darlag harbor->forge

Turn 7 – 1335 AD – Switch Leh to National Monument (will use SGL for Crystal Palace) – SGL to Leh – more chopping, railing & irrigation – now done with upgrading as all coastal cities on home island have a rifleman

IBT: Discover Refining research Internal Combustion (due in 2) – Pentagon message – Sikkim monument->Pentagon (as a placeholder) – India starts Encyclopedia – Persia starts Great Library :lol:

Turn 8 – 1340 AD – Begin assembling defenders for the other island in Barga – more chopping, railing & irrigating – Korea’s sitting on a chunk of gold, but we don’t really need it.

IBT: Kumbum park->factory – Cozhe rifle->rifle – Bamda wind mill->park – Madras builds JS Bach’s

Turn 9 – 1345 AD – First boat load of garrison troops leaves Barga – more chopping, railing & irrigating

IBT: Discover Internal Combustion research Screw Propeller (strange that it’s not a required tech, but is a pre-requisite for Mass Production) – Barcelona park->factory – Susa harbor->shipyard (why not?) – Barkhal rifle->park – Lhari park->bazaar – Oma guild hall->park – Gomo market->park – Palma major port->wind mill – Banbar major port->wind mill – India starts Shakespeare

Turn 10 – 1350 AD – Back to chopping, railing & irrigating

After action notes: Screw Propeller is due this turn, Mass Production is next – an SGL is in Leh waiting to rush Crystal after it completes the National Monument (due in 3) – there are 3 empty armies in Lhasa waiting for something to fill them with – Sikkim is building the Pentagon for lack of something better – there is a colonist in Persepolis looking for a home – there is a long boat with garrison defenders heading for Tyre and 3 more waiting in Barga for transport – I positioned a couple of units near Armagh in case the Celts start something, though I think the peace deal with Persia is almost up and they might be better moved south - I didn't realize a culture victory is 50K, is that R&R or a Conquests thing?
 
50k is a RaR thing; the problem is that the different requirements for mapsizes ( :goodjob: Firaxis!) is hardcoded, and not availble for mods ( :mad: Firaxis!).
50k isn't easy to come by on a standard map, but it seems a bit too low for bigger maps. We may need to increase it. Though the real problem is that the AI then hardly ever will reach the level, which takes away the pressure to care for the AI culture at all.
In the end, I think it is still better to have a rarely used VC for the human a bit easier but keep the AI in the race.
And, in this game we could have won by Conquest/Domination equally fast, so maybe that isn't bad at all.

Game report sounds good, nothing to add atm.

Tinkez is up.
 
I see the game, will play it after DocT5, which is up today.

I was on vacation for a week, thus I wasn't able to grab the game any earlier.
 
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