Does anybody really use Forts anymore?

[Leyrann]

I tend to only go for Military Engineers once I want launching sites for my nukes, and I typically have to build an Encampment (and buy the buildings) in order to be able to actually build (er, buy) them.

 

[RandV]

Speaking of Military Engineers, what the hell is Montezuma doing here?




This is a game on Emperor difficulty, a couple mods but nothing that should effect AI. I'm going for a domination victory here and the Aztecs are the top competition with a science edge, but I've only come across maybe 5 actual military units. Just from what I see here though that's 15 military engineers in view, which keep in mind have a maintenance of 4 gold each.

 

[Trengilly]

Clearly Monty is over engineering his empire!

 

[nzcamel]

I used to place a lot of Forts in Civ5 and in certain games create a sort of "Maginot Line" with lots of defensive areas. But I find because of how they're currently implemented in Civ 6 that I hardly ever use them and that they're really not worth the hassle.

It would be nice if they had some utility like offering zone of control.

People who have noted that the Encampment has made them a bit redundant are on the right track in my humble opinion lol. I think anything more than EP's suggestion would make them OP; yet just giving them ZOC would make them even greater for ranged units to sit in.
The ability to create a "Maginot Line" shouldn't exit til late in the game.

Make them initially able to be built by Builders

I think they should cost two builder charges though. Sure - they're under used, but it doesn't take much to tip that balance too far the other way.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

People who have noted that the Encampment has made them a bit redundant are on the right track in my humble opinion lol. I think anything more than EP's suggestion would make them OP; yet just giving them ZOC would make them even greater for ranged units to sit in.
The ability to create a "Maginot Line" shouldn't exit til late in the game.



I think they should cost two builder charges though. Sure - they're under used, but it doesn't take much to tip that balance too far the other way.

Good suggestion .

 

[acluewithout]

I really like the idea of forts. And I always build two for the eureka, which means I always have an opportunity to try out different uses for them. But, try as a might, I can't find anything useful to do with them.

I don't really have any solutions. I think they should be linked to Military Engineers. And I think Military Engineers should require an Armory. But, given the production costs, it will always be better to just build another unit than a fort (except when you're going for a eureka).

The bigger problem, however, is that you just don't need that much defence in the game. The AI just isn't good enough at war to make anything like this necessary (with walls being a sometimes exception).

Giving Forts a ZOC would make them better, but I still don't think they would be worth building. Maybe they should give a passive buff to ranged attacks? The buff could be increased damage, increased range and or increased visability. Or maybe all ranged units do slightly more damage if in a fort (i.e. tie the ranged bonus to the unit rather than the fort itself)? Or maybe ranged and some other units have promotions which work with forts?

I wouldn't mind forts providing some small tourism boost later on, like walls do. If you did this though, then forts would need to obsolete at some point., otherwise people would spam them in the late game. I think you'd need some sort of replacement like a 'bunker' later on, which could offer the same or slightly improved benefits, but just not give any tourism.

 

[Cuneiform]

The bigger problem, however, is that you just don't need that much defence in the game. The AI just isn't good enough at war to make anything like this necessary (with walls being a sometimes exception).

If we're to conclude that the A.I. is never really going to be a competent attacker, perhaps the result of a buff to Forts would actually help the A.I. defend the human onslaught better than it currently does.

 

[Trengilly]

I can't even imagine how inept the AI would be trying to maneuver through forts with ZOC! I'm afraid any improvement to forts would eliminate what little offensive threat the AI has.

I agree that the main problem with forts is that the AI isn't good enough for you to need them.

I just ran into two Greek Crossbowmen who had the Garrison promotion and were defending in districts. I'd forgotten how powerful that +10 was! took forever to dig them out. Throw in a fort bonus - ick.

 

[Giskler]

I guess a fort could be useful in a chokepoint outside city range.

 

[blackcatatonic]

To be honest, in Civ V I mostly just used them for culture bombs. With that removed from them in Civ VI, there's no point to them for me.

 

[acluewithout]

It’s a bit sad that the best suggestions for making forts useful have nothing to do with them fortifying anything...

I wouldn’t mind if forts could capture unclaimed land, but wouldn’t want them to actual steal tiles from other cities (well, for anyone other than Poland).

 

[h0nk0815]

To be honest, in Civ V I mostly just used them for culture bombs. With that removed from them in Civ VI, there's no point to them for me.

That was only true for the citadelles from a great general. Normal forts did not have a culture bomb if i recall correctly.

In Civ VI I built some forts with a Roman Legion but they were totally unused throughout the game, because there was no combat in that area. I made this experience in other iterations of the series, too.

So, I don't build forts in Civ VI and didn't build them in Civ V and Civ IV. (exception: citadelles). I even don't care about the eureka. Because by the time I usually need to build an ME I can hard research the tech myself.

 

[TomKQT]

For their real purpose? No, I never build them.
For the eureka? Yes, if I have some spare production capacity and I feel that the eureka will be usefull.
But if the eureka is also a city state quest, then I always try to get it. But the forts are replaced by a more usefull improvement (or district, wonder...) very soon....

 

[blackcatatonic]

That was only true for the citadelles from a great general. Normal forts did not have a culture bomb if i recall correctly.

In Civ VI I built some forts with a Roman Legion but they were totally unused throughout the game, because there was no combat in that area. I made this experience in other iterations of the series, too.

So, I don't build forts in Civ VI and didn't build them in Civ V and Civ IV. (exception: citadelles). I even don't care about the eureka. Because by the time I usually need to build an ME I can hard research the tech myself.

Heh, you're right. I don't know if I ever had a worker build a fort in that case, as I had forgotten they didn't all do that

 

[nzcamel]

To be honest, in Civ V I mostly just used them for culture bombs. With that removed from them in Civ VI, there's no point to them for me.

Good riddance of that. I'm not a fan of culture bombs in general.

It’s a bit sad that the best suggestions for making forts useful have nothing to do with them fortifying anything...

I wouldn’t mind if forts could capture unclaimed land, but wouldn’t want them to actual steal tiles from other cities (well, for anyone other than Poland).

I'd say establishing a ZOC around them is relevant to what forts did IRL.

 

[Karmah]

I'm in the group of those that don't see the point in building them. One tile defense ? Yeah I can see how that could be usefull in a barb rush turn 10 or 20 but then they are not available. Later on my frontiers are too large and my need for tile too great. I'm even not convinced that they are interresting as an eureka.It means building a costly engineer with two stupids abilities , the 'one-tile road' and the 'one-tile please come here to attack me' fort. No thanks.

 

[ferenginar]

I have only built them as Rome. Military engineer is one of a number of support units that I have never trained.

 

[Scaramanga]

The chain of eurekas requires an armory for gunpowder so why not get a miltary engineer and build two forts? They are good in noman's lands like deserts and tundra.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

The only problem with forts are really their limited scope. They do what they do well but they can not move around and such.

 

[Duuk]

Can I just whisper here that I hate builders/military engineers in general? Civ4's "automate and forget" system was obviously too easy, but I'd kill for a system like Call to Power 2 where you paid to upgrade tiles (in that game you had a "public works" budget). I hate having to micromanage building builders to build building improvements. I frequently wind up not improving tiles because I forget to build the builders. When I remember, I rush buy them, but then I feel like I'm missing out by not taking the time to use the policy cards properly. It annoys me