Does anyone else find the screen "cluttered"?

[I_batman]

I finally had built a rig to powerful enough to play CIV IV on, and have got a few games in.
BTW, this rig I figure can run NASA's program to Mars, or barely play Civ IV without hiccups.

Anyway, the game runs very smoothly, even on the maximum map size, maximum amount of civs, and has not crashed once, with the patches applied.

My question/comment is this:

I am losing interest fast in the game because I find the screen cluttered and somewhat confusing.
I am talking about having stacks of mechanized infantry and modern armour going forth and doing battle, and losing my focus on what units are where, the strengths of each unit, the movement left of each unit, things like that.

I am playing with the original terrain, orgininal units in 1.61.

I have played a ton of Civ III, and games like HoI II, and find these 2D screens much easier on the eyes and much easier to manage my units.

Is it just me, or do others have this issue?

I will qualify this by stating I think that for a turn based strategy game, 3D is the biggest waste of computing power there can be.

So I realize my views may be biased, but I really am questioning the actual playability of the game.

 

[wkndwrrr]

Turn off certain options so there are not so many overlays, perhaps. You can probably get rid of the grid and resource IDer, and tweak the options so things are simpler. Or you could set alot of automation up, so you don't have to zoom around the map so much.

I have'nt played the other civ games, so I cannot answer some of the preference questions.

 

[The Great Apple]

The game is pretty 2D - just you can zoom in and out. There's no rotation to worry about.

I'd suggest increasing the amount of players per map - more players means you'll have less cities, and less units to worry about. You could also try increasing the screen resolution so you can fit more on.

 

[drkodos]

I will qualify this by stating I think that for a turn based strategy game, 3D is the biggest waste of computing power there can be.

I think this is a salient point. The game is about strategic choices and their outcomes. 3D does nothing to enhance or enable this process, and may actually detract from it.

 

[·Imhotep·]

To me the actual interface is a great relief. Those 2D maps gave me the creeps. I actually like the design of the created worlds really. Playing with em is fun !

 

[Beetlebug]

Hmmm, I too like the 3D feature. That was one of the things I liked best about Alpha Centauri. Of course, AC ran on my old 486 no problem.

The 3D rendering in CIV IV don't add much of anything to the game play. I mean really does it add anything when a bananna falls of a bananna plant or if the macement picks his nose when the unit has been highlighted? All that stuff is eye candy for _____ (add your least favorite group) and jacks up the computing power needed to run it.

 

[I_batman]

wkndwrrr and the Great Apple:

I will post a screen shot later this evening of what I am talking about.

And my current game (last played 5 days ago) was played on maximum size map, maximum amount of starting civ's, grid lines off.

I guess what disappoints me is that I spent $2400 on a machine powerful enough to play this game, and now I find it does not hold that "wow" factor for me.

The game itself is running flawlessly.
I mean, it should, since I have 2 gig high end memory, 4 MB cache, a 3.2 Gig processor, and half a gig on the video card.

Hopefully, once I post the screenshot, you can give me some ideas about how to clean things up.

 

[Sisiutil]

Regarding the 3D versus 2D debate: Yes, the 3D is eye candy. Is it necessary for the game? Technically no, but Civ IV would not exist without it. A games developer recently explained in another thread on this topic that the whole industry is going 3D, and if Firaxis wanted to keep and attract quality developers, they had to go that route. No developer wants to work on antiquated technology. So no 3D, no Civ IV--for business reasons, not technical ones.

The issue in the OP had more to do with unit management, I thought, especially of modern units in the late game. The simplest solution is to stack the units together and move them together. I hope this doesn't sound condescending, but as you're indicating you're relatively new to the game, perhaps you are unaware of, and are not using, some of the interface features such as right-clicking/dragging to automate unit/stack movement, even over long distances, or setting rally points. I also enlarged the game's screen resolution to 1280x1024 so I can see and manage more units without having to move around as much. You can also turn on additional graphics features, such as the unit health indicator--a green/yellow/red bar that hovers over each unit so you can determine its general health status at a glance. That might increase the clutter and the problem for you, though.

With units getting damaged and having to be left behind to heal at different rates, there is inevitably a certain degree of micromanagement that will be required. This is a reflection of the evolution of the combat system, in my view, more than anything to do with 3D. In Civ I, a unit either survived combat or died, IIRC. In Civ IV, it can take damage (and either heal or fight while hurt, if need be), earn promotions, specialize, and so on.

I think there are settings or, failing that, mods that could simplify combat back to Civ I levels, but I prefer the new system even if it is more complicated. I suspect the OP does as well. Beyond what I've said above, I don't have anything else to suggest. Modern wars, with their plethora of units and unit types, do get a little overwhelming. I prefer to do my warmongering early in the game, when there are fewer units required and battles are simpler and more decisive.

I apologize in advance if this is no help to you!

 

[Elrohir]

In addition to Sisiutil's suggestions, I would suggest playing on a smaller map, and starting in the Ancient Age. That would allow you to get used to playing with only a few units, before you dive right into massive modern wars with dozens or hundreds of units. That can be a little overwhelming; I think you should start small, and then work your way up. Give it time; Civ4 is a very fun, and addictive game. (Perhaps too addictive....)

 

[boneys26]

to keep track of your units use the military advisor he'll tell you what you have and where they are.

also you payed way too much for your pc hope you got it in gold was it pre built?

 

[Zombie69]

I agree that 3D is the biggest flaw of the entire game, bigger even than the stupid AI. I would pay good money for someone to mod the game with nothing but Civ 1 graphics, units being little pictures in boxes, etc.

 

[Sisiutil]

I agree that 3D is the biggest flaw of the entire game, bigger even than the stupid AI. I would pay good money for someone to mod the game with nothing but Civ 1 graphics, units being little pictures in boxes, etc.

Bah! Get rid of the graphics altogether! They're a distraction! Make it text-based! When I was your age, we didn't need no stinkin' "little pictures in boxes"! When we played Zork and got lost in that maze of "twisty passages, all the same", we liked it! You kids today and your "graphics engines" and your "rock and roll music"... harrumph!

And stay off my lawn!

 

[I_batman]

Though not the definitive snapshot of what I am trying to say, this certainly shows a very busy screen.
I play on a 19 inch monitor with 1280 x 1024 resolution.
And I figure the only way to play a game is at its most complex level.
I am referring to game engine systems, not amount of civ's or size of map. The game was designed to play with a complex system, therefore should be played that way.
(BTW, if anybody truly thinks Civ IV has a complex battle system, try out Hearts or Iron II and then comment on Civ IV's system.)

I would suggest that reducing the amount of civs or map size is not really a problem for me, since you really only have constant number of civ's you are in close contact with at any one time.

What I am trying to show in the screenshot is a lot of information.
Is it overkill, possibly, (but I will try to find a screenshot even worse than this one tonight).

Now, if people have some suggestions that would simplify this screen, please let me know.
Example: I understand that by simply moving the mouse gets rid of the left hand list (Mouseover), but what about the right hand listing of civ points?

 

[Zombie69]

Bah! Get rid of the graphics altogether! They're a distraction! Make it text-based! When I was your age, we didn't need no stinkin' "little pictures in boxes"! When we played Zork and got lost in that maze of "twisty passages, all the same", we liked it! You kids today and your "graphics engines" and your "rock and roll music"... harrumph!

And stay off my lawn!

Actually, i'd rather have it text based than have the bloated useless 3D engine we have now. But Civ 1 graphics would be just perfect.

P.S. I still like, and still play, Pac-Man and Pong.

 

[Zombie69]

Example: I understand that by simply moving the mouse gets rid of the left hand list (Mouseover), but what about the right hand listing of civ points?

Can be turned off in the options (sorry, i don't remember where the option is exactly, but i'm 100% sure it's there, just look around a bit).

 

[wkndwrrr]

Can be turned off in the options (sorry, i don't remember where the option is exactly, but i'm 100% sure it's there, just look around a bit).

the 3rd to the right button above the minimap (it looks like a piece of paper with a check mark) toggles the score sheet on and off. Other than that, there is not really anything else to turn off to simplify the screen, other than moving the mouse off the stack of tanks.

Edit: well, there is the toggle bare map button, but that makes it so you cannot see units or city details, and makes it impossible to play. that option is only for screenshots really

 

[I_batman]

Bah! Get rid of the graphics altogether! They're a distraction! Make it text-based! When I was your age, we didn't need no stinkin' "little pictures in boxes"! When we played Zork and got lost in that maze of "twisty passages, all the same", we liked it! You kids today and your "graphics engines" and your "rock and roll music"... harrumph!

And stay off my lawn!

Though I opened this thread to discuss uncluttering a screen, and there are a zillion threads about 3D bad, 3D good, I can't let this comment pass.

I have no problem with 3D graphics if they fit with the genre of the game.
You play a 1st person shooter, any sane person would scream for as much realism as possible, which means 3D, true motion based on physcis, superb artwork, etc.

But this is not one of those games.
Civ IV still marketed as a turn based strategy game.
That means graphics should take a back seat to the game engines.
And what I originally said was 3D is the biggest waste of computing power in a "turn based-strategy game".

If someone can build a game that can integrate 3D graphics without detracting from the game engine, or needing a more powerful computer to play the game, I will be the first to sign up to play the game.
But no such game exists, or will ever exist.

So for people like me, who love strategy first, pretty pictures second, 3D is a waste.

That being said, the comment by you earlier about not finding any hot shot coders who don't want to do 3D, I can certainly see the logic in that.
Sad, but I can certainly see that as true.

 

[Zombie69]

Also, try zooming out to the max. You'll find that the screen looks far less cluttered.

 

[I_batman]

the 3rd to the right button above the minimap (it looks like a piece of paper with a check mark) toggles the score sheet on and off. Other than that, there is not really anything else to turn off to simplify the screen, other than moving the mouse off the stack of tanks.

Edit: well, there is the toggle bare map button, but that makes it so you cannot see units or city details, and makes it impossible to play. that option is only for screenshots really

Awesome, just tried the score sheet toggle.
Thank you.

 

[Zombie69]

Edit: well, there is the toggle bare map button, but that makes it so you cannot see units or city details, and makes it impossible to play. that option is only for screenshots really

I like to use that button to get a better view through the fog of war (e.g. to find out which city has a given wonder) or to check out the content of a black square (by looking at what spills over to other squares). It makes everything brighter and clearer, and easier to tell apart. Also zoom in to the max and you'll always find what you're looking for.