Does anyone else....
- Thread starter manu-fan
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RedRover57
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,014
If RA's are "cheats" then why are they in the game, as well as having a WW and policy that improves them?
I wouldn't call it a cheat. It isn't that you're tricking the AI into paying you more for luxuries, it simply overvalues them itself.
It probably is an exploit/bug though, as I can't imagine that this was the intended value at which AI's value luxuries.
Nitpicking aside - I'll admit I'm guilty of doing this every so often, usually when I'm low on gold. The thing is that you shouldn't be prevented from selling luxuries because the AI overvalues luxury resources as one of the advantages of expanding is the ability to sell spare resources.
What I can't understand is why this hasn't been fixed yet. I'm assuming (hoping really) that there is going to be a big diplomacy patch coming before Christmas that will solve this problem and hopefully rectifiy a player's inability to become friends with a Civ amongst other things.
It probably is an exploit/bug though, as I can't imagine that this was the intended value at which AI's value luxuries.
Nitpicking aside - I'll admit I'm guilty of doing this every so often, usually when I'm low on gold. The thing is that you shouldn't be prevented from selling luxuries because the AI overvalues luxury resources as one of the advantages of expanding is the ability to sell spare resources.
What I can't understand is why this hasn't been fixed yet. I'm assuming (hoping really) that there is going to be a big diplomacy patch coming before Christmas that will solve this problem and hopefully rectifiy a player's inability to become friends with a Civ amongst other things.
Why not? Buying Colosseum costs twice as much as buying a luxury. I often buy luxuries from AI. It's better to get a luxury than GPT in a trade.
Kerosene31
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2001
- Messages
- 409
Not at all, especially when the AI has a massive runaway empire that spans half the globe with 30+ happiness.
If you really need the luxury; the AI validation of it is fine.
The problem is the AI doesn't understand when it already has enough happiness / already has enough of that strategic resource / doesn't need the open border.
The problem is the AI doesn't understand when it already has enough happiness / already has enough of that strategic resource / doesn't need the open border.
I view selling luxuries as part of diplomacy. It's simply a mutual tribute system. You can easily sell one for 240g to a good friend and that will likely keep him friendly (unless you do other things that counteracts that). It doesn't matter if he is flushed with happiness and you are flushed with gold, it's a simple way of re-enforcing the relationship. Other opponents that are not so friendly would be hard-pressed to do a simple 240g-lux exchange, as it should be the case.
I suppose you've never done a RA and had them declare on you several turns later to waste your gold? AI cheats too in that respect then
Not to mention....they get the same tech boost you do unless you snag PT. Mutual benefit isn't cheating is it?
snarzberry
Emperor
I think it's meant to represent international trading like Australia supplying coal to China IRL, it's not a one time purchase like 'here do you wanna buy these spices?' it represents a long term trading relationship and the gold you get is the value on your end, or access to the resource if you bought it.
It's beyond doubt that this is an intended feature of the game, now it may be that in your opinion it makes for a better game if the feature is ignored. I can't see why so you'll have to provide reasons for that.
Calling it cheating is silly, it's obviously an intended and integral part of the game.
It's beyond doubt that this is an intended feature of the game, now it may be that in your opinion it makes for a better game if the feature is ignored. I can't see why so you'll have to provide reasons for that.
Calling it cheating is silly, it's obviously an intended and integral part of the game.
Not at all, I rarely take gold my excess luxuries because getting new luxuries increases happiness which leads to a golden age anyway.
I just wish they would fix the AI so that a friendly won't reject my offer to trade or buy their excess luxuries off them, that's really annoying.
I just wish they would fix the AI so that a friendly won't reject my offer to trade or buy their excess luxuries off them, that's really annoying.
OP was talking about selling luxuries to the AI, not buying them. Personally, I don't trust the AI to maintain my economy on the basis of consistently buying luxuries from them (assuming I even had the kind of gold...). Not to say I haven't done it, but rather that it's like RA's, there's an inherent risk that the AI will DoW. Sometimes for very clear reasons, sometimes less so.
The point, however, is that the AI overvalues its need for luxuries. The fact that the price for selling luxuries (and strategic resources) is constant and a high constant at that, means that they're often paying over the odds for what they're getting. If you made the AI value luxury and strategic resources in relation to its need, you would have a closer approximation of a resource's sale value or something closer to what its actual market value is to the AI. In the current system the AI is pretty much a cash cow.
Becomedeath
The Destroyer
I don't use the Queen when I play chess because her moves are OP and really, it's just a way of cheating when you consider it next to Pawns.
Seriously however...how can a using a game mechanic in the game be cheating? I'm pretty sure the AI won't consider it cheating, what with it being there and all....
Seriously however...how can a using a game mechanic in the game be cheating? I'm pretty sure the AI won't consider it cheating, what with it being there and all....
blightmoon
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 25, 2011
- Messages
- 75
While it seems quite "gamey", that feature ought to stay. A better valuation of the lux for the AI is what seems to be needed more.
manu-fan
Emperor
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2006
- Messages
- 1,005
Thanks. Exploit was the word I was looking for. I consider them Exploits.
Thanks for all the replies everyone, and I'm happy to see some of you that feel the same way.
Cheers.
I consider it a clearly programmed part of the game and representative of international trade and diplomacy. In the real world, when a nation has too much of something someone else wants, they sell it for a profit. I don't even consider selling luxuries to the AI you are about to declare war on gamey...just think of all the times when AIs have backstabbed you in spite of a DoF, reneged on a RA for war, etc.
Plus, 240
for 30 turns of +4 
isn't that bad anyway. There are numerous times when I have bought luxuries or strategic resources from the AI because I had an immediate need...to get from unhappy to happy, for example.
Plus, 240
for 30 turns of +4 isn't that bad anyway. There are numerous times when I have bought luxuries or strategic resources from the AI because I had an immediate need...to get from unhappy to happy, for example.
