Does Civil War and declaration of independence exist in BTS?

[Mellian]

In my recent game, while being towards the top, the English were at the bottom, being blocked by the Vikings who were expanding pretty quickly, taking over many of the barbarian cities that appeared in considerable amount for some reason. Since they couldn't expand further into the continent, the English expanded to a small continent across the channel and claimed it theirs...yet still ended up lagging behind.

Then, next thing I knew, instead of Elizabeth, also dealing with Churchill. At this point, since I haven't met the 8th civilization yet (was Lincoln America), thought the stupid random selection allowed another English civ to exist. Right after talking to him, trying to figure out what happened until the delayed events message kicked in saying Elizabeth assigned Churchill to lead the English Colonies (all cities in the small continent across the channel) and became Elizabeth's vassal. Despite that, both Elizabeth and Churchill still share the bottom of the scores.

That is pretty neet, so wondering what event or option is that? Is there a civil war one out there? Possibly if an civ not in the game, maybe there can be declaration of independence and have that civ spawn out of another?

-mellian

 

[A1CBOZ]

It is a BTS feature. But it is not a civil war. In BTS overseas colonies cost more (Replicating sending supplies by sea etc..) And when you have more than 2 cities on another landmass, you can grant them independence to cut down on the costs and thus a new civ is born.. The new civ is your bitc... vassal... and has a +10 relations modifier for giving them independence.

 

[Spearthrower]

2 cities on a separate land mass allow you to build a colony.... the colony becomes a new civ with very high diplomatic modifiers with the original civ.

That's what happened in your game, Liz must have had a couple of cities on an island, and to save her maintenance costs, she split them off into a colony.... which by chance (weighted in the XML) it became Churchill.

There are no civil wars.... there is something like a declaration of independence from conquered vassals meeting the requirements to achieve independence - but it's not quite the same as you meant.

 

[A1CBOZ]

she split them off into a colony.... which by chance (weighted in the XML) it became Churchill.

Actually i think that If your a civ that has ore than one leaderhead then it will split to that nation, or if two nations are closely related it will split to that one. In one of my games I was Rome and gave independence to the Byzantines.
Again, this is just me thinking... if someone has tested and proved me wrong... o well...

 

[Kushluk]

she split them off into a colony.... which by chance (weighted in the XML) it became Churchill.

Actually i think that If your a civ that has ore than one leaderhead then it will split to that nation, or if two nations are closely related it will split to that one. In one of my games I was Rome and gave independence to the Byzantines.
Again, this is just me thinking... if someone has tested and proved me wrong... o well...

Second this. I was playing as the Byzantines and I gave independence to the Greeks.

I think it has a list of "related" civs, so the Romans won't be giving independence to Korea anytime soon. And that is a good thing.

 

[Dida]

The colony system is a bit annoying, if you have 10 cities on a landmass, you can only grant independence to the whole landmass as a single civ, and cannot, for example, split it into 2 civs, and hand pick which city to grant to which civ.
I sometimes like to keep my colonies small, so they don't become a competitor in UN vote. (vassals should never compete with their master for any sort of "gaming winning" vote, in my opinion)

 

[Da_V_Man]

Well, in my current game, I made Saladin as a colony first, and then I also made Cyrus later since I could'nt gift the cities to saladbin.

 

[TheLastOne36]

funny, i thought fireaxis said they'd implament a civil war feature n bts... but that was a long time ago. i guess the changed there mind,

 

[Spearthrower]

There's a "derivative" civ in the XML - that's the one it seems most likely to reproduce.... I dont have any figures, but yes, it is also a high probablility to spawn another leader from your own civ (which can get incredibly confusing when a few AI have done this..... "China attacked me? But we've got an alliance!!.... Oh THAT China! "

 

[Mellian]

funny, i thought fireaxis said they'd implament a civil war feature n bts... but that was a long time ago. i guess the changed there mind,

Well since they programmed a granting of independence feature, shouldn't it be possible to organize a script somewhere to have events cause civil wars if x or/and y is below some amount? Civil War thing is something I really miss from Civ2, and from Master of Orion 3 as well.

-mellian

 

[Yzman]

Vassals don't really compete with you...they will always vote for you in the elections. Never had it where they were a contender in it though.

 

[Da_V_Man]

Vassals don't really compete with you...they will always vote for you in the elections. Never had it where they were a contender in it though.

I did with my colony because I conquered half of the other continent.

 

[thomson_2001]

well im playing as boudica of celtica and spawned Brennus as my first vassal...then MAO of china as second!!! WTF lol

annoyingly Brennus, my loyal "servant" who loves me dearly... wont give me artillery or rocketry even though i told him to research it. just says "we dont want to trade away this tech right now!!!" oven though ivbe suppplied him wiht al my techs for years...ungreatful bugga!

 

[Maddin]

I think the concept itself is nice but I've also had some staggeringly freakish games. For one: why the hell does Portugal spawn Celts? And in one other game (on a Terra Map) I played as Spain, spawned America (not surprisingly) and was then beaten to the Space Race by them (I gave them the entire other continent, which I got to pretty quick - long live the beeline). Also, I wasn't able to get a Diplomatic Victory, because Lincoln was the other contestant (my vassal) and had so many votes due to his size alone. I think vassals shouldn't be allowed to partake as an acitve member of either UN or AP - only as voters.

Also: don't you guys think, one should be able to found colonies on the same continent? I started on game on the coast next to a three city Island. Expanded on the continent and later the Island. After a giant war with someone on the other side of the continent I was only able to give the cities to some other existing civ and able to turn the island right next to my capital into a colony. That's just downright ridiculous. Also I think a Forbidden Palace on a different continent should have greater effects and be a real alternative to found a colony.

 

[Soneji]

In my very first BtS game that got off the ground, Augustus of Rome was the owner of a spawned colonial civ - Julius C of Rome!

I did have East and West rome, split in two with two different rulers. That was a kick ass game, and I never did really get round to attacking them!

 

[Figaro]

The Colony feature, and the Vassal State system in general, is full of great ideas that work fine in principle but in practice have some serious problems. Vassals should be less independent (i.e. less able to refuse techs etc.), but more able to break free from their master. I've never seen a regular vassal regain its independence (barring those who became vassals voluntarily), let alone a Colony become fully independent - it's hardly reminiscent of the modern American nations. The US declared independence themselves and then fought a war to assert it; wheras all that can happen in Civ4 is a nation becomes another's . .. .. .. .. . (given UK foreign policy over the last few years, it would appear the relationship has switched over).

My suggestions for the system's improvement:
-Vassals should only be allowed to vote in elections, not stand for them.
-Vassals who vote against their masters should force a war between the Vassal and Master
-The same goes for Vassals who refuse tribute of any sort.
-Colonies should be able to earn their independence via expansion, just like capitulated enemies can.

The Celts turning out Mongol colonies is a problem but not one that can be fixed without adding massive numbers of new civs into the game. Although... if the civs made colonies could simply be renamed "New England" or "New Spain" or "New China" or "New Byzantium" or something it would be more realistic (most European colonial powers referred to their colonies as New X at one time or other), even if the leader was still Qin Shi Huang of New Spain or whatever.

 

[Soneji]

I would like civil wars, just what you had to fight in Colonization to get your Independence...

Or what I should say is I would like the AI to fight me.

 

[thomson_2001]

why cant you just name the civ like you can at start of game, to make your custom own one. also would be nice if occasionally the vassal (when powerful enough) would rise up and have a little war with you. a little beat down every now and then seems reasonable lol

 

[Grimz101]

I just wish you had more choice when creating vassals.. on a Terra map i wanna have two colonies one in north one in south, otherwise they just become to powerful , and have it like it was in non patched Warlords, where all their gold per turn was available for resource trades/demands.. its like the AI has not researched a tech ever because since it owns all the Terra continent its badly hurt by maitenance, and since my cottage economy is brilliant, im easily the tech leader always gifting techs to it.. The advantage of Colonies is suspose to be resources, but i can already get those resources on the mainland continent, so if maybe there was tobacco, cotton ect unique to the other continent i would think colonies were decent.
I guess once they fix that corporation cost is effected by inflation, meaning it costs me 50 gold per city not 20, Colonies would be useful for having multiple of the same resources..

 

[Figaro]

When generating random maps, luxury and health resources tend to cluster so that normally they are native only to some, not all, continents. Odds are that on a Terra map there will be at least one resource native to the "new world" that will be unavailable elsewhere, and at least one vice versa.