Does Sumeria need a rework?

[Patine]

Sumeria needs to be replaced outright with another Mesopotamian civ, like Babylon or Assyria, or even Akkadia or Elam, with more historical veracity that can be easily utilized and a leader who LIKELY EXISTED and is not one of the biggest jokes in the game. That is my opinion. It's not going to happen, of course, but that's how I opine.

 

[acluewithout]

Mate. Gilgabro is awesome. Don’t knock Gilgabro.

He’s like my best bud.

Like. Every game. He’s my best bud. Everyone else hates me. But Gilgabro. He’s got my back.

 

[Patine]

Mate. Gilgabro is awesome. Don’t knock Gilgabro.

He’s like my best bud.

Like. Every game. He’s my best bud. Everyone else hates me. But Gilgabro. He’s got my back.

Stellar, erudite, rational, eloquent, Toastmaster's-calibre retort.

 

[acluewithout]

Stellar, erudite, rational, eloquent, Toastmaster's-calibre retort.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

I’m here all week; try the veal.

 

[Morningcalm]

While I don't like the ahistorical elements in the Sumeria design, I think their design is somewhat interesting and varied, unlike, say, the one trick pony that is Macedon. Civs like Korea are far more dull, and more in need of a rework. At the end of the day, balance and historical flavor aside, what's important is that each civ be fun to play. Korea, currently, isn't. Sumeria still is, even if I wish their abilities were more historically attuned sometimes.

 

[acluewithout]

I don’t get why people keep saying Korea are dull. They have some really interesting adjacencies going on, do interesting stuff with Governors, and because they have such a narrow focus (in principle) you have to think creatively to use their bonuses to achieve something other than science.

The real problems are not really a problems with them at all. Instead, the core problems are (1) science is too powerful, and (2) science is too easy to get.

Campuses come early, there’s nothing to stop you spamming them, they give a metric tonne of science, you can multiply that science multiple times over with City States and Cards, and there’s no downside to having lots of science only upside (eg you only require power if you build powered buildings, your pop never need more amenities because of rising expectations) and the upsides are beyond awesome.

Korea are a bit like Hawkman in the DC universe. “Dude, what’s your power?” “I can fly.” “Dude, we can all fly”.

Sumeria, Korea and a few other Civs suffer from similar problems. They are the best at doing something that is trivially easy to do and just flat out wins you the game. The Civs are totally fine - the game just needs to be harder.

 

[Victoria]

the game just needs to be harder.

In my many games of playing I played Sumeria 3 times.
Once when it came out, once for a GOTM and this weekend to show it is potentially stronger at science victory than Korea.
All 3 games have been wonderful and rather OP. While with Korea it is a fiddly OP civ unless you just go for +3 instead of +4. The game is certainly not in the slightest bit difficult with either.
However playing a vanilla start civ is much more challenging but dull until their own abilities start kicking in.
Quite different games. I guess everyone’s agendas are quite different in their civ requirements.

 

[Aurelesk]

I would make war chariots less strong or cost more production.

Well, the War-Cart is an earlier (105 Science), cheaper (-15%), stronger (+2 CS), faster (+1 Movement) Heavy Chariot with no maintenance (-1 GPT) that ignore enemy zone (or: the Heavy Chariot is the only heavy cavalry unit that doesn't ignore ZoC) and with no penalties against anti-cavalry units.
Can you imaging a Knight unlocked at Horseback Riding, costing 190 Production (instead of 220), with 50 Melee Strength (instead of 48), with 5 or 6 Movement (instead of 4), with 0 or 2 GPT maintenance (instead of 4), and that isn't weak against Pikeman?

I do believe that the only reason that War-Cart isn't weak to anti-cavalry is mostly because barbarians outpost is guarded by spearman. Basicly, I would rather change that: making the War-Cart vulnerable to anti-cavalry so you can defend yourself by rushing the Spearman, but add to the Epic Quest ability a bonus against barbarian. For example, a bland +5 CS, going to +10 if the barbarian is inside an outpost, or an ability à la Winger Hussar that is working only against barbarians?

War-Cart will be probably stay strong, but now you can better defend against it (except if you just met Gilgamesh but somehow he already has an army at your border).

 

[Zaarin]

Sumer doesn't need a rework; it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, starting with ditching Gilgamesh for Gudea or Ur-Nammu, then making The Epic of Gilgamesh a great work instead of a civilization.

with more historical veracity that can be easily utilized and a leader who LIKELY EXISTED and is not one of the biggest jokes in the game

Don't mistake the devs' laziness with a lack of sources. The Sumerians were immaculate (and, remarkably, mostly honest) record keepers. Also Gilgamesh (Bilgameš) almost certainly existed (he's the earliest of the kings on the Sumerian king list whose existence we can verify), though he definitely didn't descend to the Underworld and probably didn't run off on a quest for immortality. But that doesn't make the devs' design less garbage.