Donating techs to allow resouces trade?

[10lire]

Hi everyone,
I'm playng at lowest level (settler) with Pericles.
During the Industrial age I discover Steam Power; it reveals Coal.
I realise that there is no Coal in my territory or in the near; I'm adopting a very peacemongering strategy, so I don't want to conquer other civs' cities near to Coal.
I decide to try the following strategy:
I have dozens of techs of advantage with the other AI civs so I search for sufficiently weak AI civs with at least 2 Coal resources on their territories (they are Charlemagne and Zara Yacob, at the same tech level) and I donate them all the technologies they need to "see" and improve Coal. After this, they surely will be friendly and, I think, they will trade the surplus Coal with me; the donated techs are:

1st turn: Paper and Guilds;
2nd turn: Printing Press, Banking and Gunpowder;
3rd turn: Replaceable Parts and Chemistry
4th turn: Steam Power.

After 5-6 turns my explorers and my spies allow me to see that all the Charlemagne's and Zara's squares with Coal are improved (mines and roads) and connected with the rest of their Empires, but in the Trade Proposal Screen I can't see Coal in the Resources list, neither with Zara nor with Charlemagne, and I don't know why.
Could anybody helps?

 

[Millea]

Neither of them have discovered Steam Power, so they don't know that they do have coal and it is not connected to their trade network.
EDIT: That is on the turn of the trade, they didn't have steam power yet. Try ending turn and going to the next one.

 

[Millea]

Ignore this. I double posted.

 

[ThatOne]

If you are that far ahead in tech you should just go get the coal.

 

[10lire]

I have donated Steam Power to CM anz ZY and waited 5-6 turns, because they had not mines on those squares (CM had windmills on them). When I have seen that all was ok I have contacted them to trade Coal. You know the rest.
However thank you for answer me!

 

[10lire]

If you are that far ahead in tech you should just go get the coal.

You're right, but I'd like to know if this particular strategy can work and why I don't see Coal among the trading resources; other that, I'm testing a totally peacemongering strategy (no war at all - this is why I'm playing at Settler level ) and I don't want to declare war to a Coal-owner.

 

[s.bernbaum]

They won't trade anything that they only have one of. Do they each have more than one coal? Also, while you were waiting, they may have traded their excess coal to other AIs. The AIs are always willing to trade any excess resource immediately. Even AIs that cannot use coal are willing to trade for it. (Maybe they use it to build nice black buildings?)

 

[Major Tom]

What are you supposed to do with that coal? I mean, how does it fit in to your strategy?

 

[Jastrow]

You are clearly playing some mod (researching "multiple expansions"), so this might be related to the rules of whatever mod that is...

 

[10lire]

First of all: thanks for your answers!

They won't trade anything that they only have one of. Do they each have more than one coal? Also, while you were waiting, they may have traded their excess coal to other AIs. The AIs are always willing to trade any excess resource immediately. Even AIs that cannot use coal are willing to trade for it. (Maybe they use it to build nice black buildings?)

The only civs having knowledge of Coal are: my civ (Greece, 0 Coal), Ethiopia (2 Coal) and Holy Roman Empire (2 Coal). Teorically they can trade Coal only with me, because I don't understand how can an AI trade Coal if this AI doesn't know the existence of Coal. However, in the worst case, I could see at least 1 (untradeable) Coal in the Ethiopian and in the Holy Roman resource list. On the contrary, it seems they ignore the existence of Coal even if they have improved the coal tiles! (See the picture in post #1).

What are you supposed to do with that coal? I mean, how does it fit in to your strategy?

Railroads.
And Ironclads to defend my coasts against enemy Caravels.

You are clearly playing some mod (researching "multiple expansions"), so this might be related to the rules of whatever mod that is...

Yes, I'm playing Varietas Delectat mod, with Modern Era Expansion (this is where "Multiple Expansion" comes from) a few modifications of my own. They affect gameplay but not the way the resources work.. but this is a starting point.. I could do some test creating a scenario in vanilla game!

 

[The Diocletian]

Railroads.
And Ironclads to defend my coasts against enemy Caravels.

I'm 90% sure caravels cannot blockade cities or pillage their food, so theirs really no point, right?

 

[10lire]

Yeah, really pointless (you can say 100% sure). It's was a joke
Anyway I have done some tests using worldbuilder in Vanilla and in VD too. Everything is ok: AI civ(s), after I donated it/them those techs, can propose to me to trade Coal.
I have forgotten something (some other tech?) in my game by mistake; in other words, ZY and CM miss something.. but what? any idea?

 

[s.bernbaum]

10lire:

The only civs having knowledge of Coal are: my civ (Greece, 0 Coal), Ethiopia (2 Coal) and Holy Roman Empire (2 Coal). Teorically they can trade Coal only with me, because I don't understand how can an AI trade Coal if this AI doesn't know the existence of Coal. However, in the worst case, I could see at least 1 (untradeable) Coal in the Ethiopian and in the Holy Roman resource list. On the contrary, it seems they ignore the existence of Coal even if they have improved the coal tiles! (See the picture in post #1).

Your problem may not be that the coal has already been traded by Ethiopia and Rome. However, the other AIs will be able to trade for it. That was why I added that remark about using it for buildings (joking there). You or the AIs need steam tech to find and mine coal. However, it is not needed to trade for coal someone else has on offer. The AI may not know what to do with it but they are quite willing to trade for it. When I have excess coal, there are always AIs offering to trade something to me for it, even when they are still trying to research medieval techs. They know you or another AI have it, even if they don't know what it is for and they are willing to trade for it. I have had them offer it to me in trade if they get multiple coal mines before I have steam tech.