fe3333au
Deity
We could really have fun with this 
... replace 'bluster' with 'huff puffery' 
... replace 'bluster' with 'huff puffery' 
Doughnut Files Term 7 - 9
- Thread starter fe3333au
- Start date
I find this line very amusing:
Now, our treaty was clearly intended to be an agreement to keep Nuts and MIA from trading with KISS. However, it did not explicitly forbid buying techs from KISS - what do you call that? Sounds like a loophole that Dnuts jumped through quicker than [insert humorous analogy here].
Section 2.5 of our treaty says "Dnuts will immediately begin work on Metallurgy... Both Nations agree to get their assigned technology as soon as possible without deficit researching." Maybe Dnuts can claim that they got it as soon as possible by buying it from KISS, but if that is not the epitome of exploiting a loophole, I don't know what is.
Now, our treaty was clearly intended to be an agreement to keep Nuts and MIA from trading with KISS. However, it did not explicitly forbid buying techs from KISS - what do you call that? Sounds like a loophole that Dnuts jumped through quicker than [insert humorous analogy here].
Section 2.5 of our treaty says "Dnuts will immediately begin work on Metallurgy... Both Nations agree to get their assigned technology as soon as possible without deficit researching." Maybe Dnuts can claim that they got it as soon as possible by buying it from KISS, but if that is not the epitome of exploiting a loophole, I don't know what is.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Ok – kinda rambling… but it's a start!
classical_hero
In whom I trust
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4157992&postcount=21
For ease of reference here is the Dnut agreement. There is nothing here stating that we cannot help TNT, nothing. They are delusional.
For ease of reference here is the Dnut agreement. There is nothing here stating that we cannot help TNT, nothing. They are delusional.
fe3333au
Deity
Nicely written Gen_W good start
I'd like to see this greased pig of yours ... gosh you yanks have strange customs
I'd like to see this greased pig of yours ... gosh you yanks have strange customs
fe3333au
Deity
Here are some graphics we could decorate future diplomatis messages with ...
1. Backstabbing Buddy -
2. A nice simple graphic
3. Backstab Free Zone
4. Another smilie that makes a point
- 
5. A cartoon (but caption can be changed)
... perhaps - MIA Diplomat at the compulsary annual checkup.
6. Nice Military Image with a Simpsonesque theme.
... this one possibly an honour badge used to decorate the Nut's better diplomats
1. Backstabbing Buddy -
2. A nice simple graphic
3. Backstab Free Zone
4. Another smilie that makes a point
- 5. A cartoon (but caption can be changed)
... perhaps - MIA Diplomat at the compulsary annual checkup.
6. Nice Military Image with a Simpsonesque theme.
... this one possibly an honour badge used to decorate the Nut's better diplomats
Ha ha ha!! Those are great, Fe!
But I wonder if we should drop the high-and-mighty 'you stabbed us in the back' language. After all, they just exploited a treaty. It's not like the used a RoP rape or anything.
I just think that the phrase 'stabbed in the back' is a little overkill for this situation. But I really like the cartoons!
But I wonder if we should drop the high-and-mighty 'you stabbed us in the back' language. After all, they just exploited a treaty. It's not like the used a RoP rape or anything.
I just think that the phrase 'stabbed in the back' is a little overkill for this situation. But I really like the cartoons!
classical_hero
In whom I trust
Now this is a backstab smiley that we must use.
This is taken from CDZ.
This is taken from CDZ.
fe3333au
Deity
Well our next move in the war of letters will be the Sunday Funnies 
Very interesting that the Dnuts researched Nationalism instead of Steam Power. I guess that means they are going for Communism next. I can't think of any other reason Nationalism would be preferred over Steam - I would rather have railroads than mobilization, and I think they would prefer cavarly instead of riflemen to prevent us from landing on their island.
The good news is that means they have spent 5 turns on Nationalism and will probably spend at least 5 turns on Communism plus several turns in anarchy. We should be able to detour to Hoover Dam and still get to Flight first (or go straight to Flight and get there way before the Nuts).
The bad news is Communism is very powerful once they get there, but I'm not really sure what they are doing. It looks like they are still ICSing which I wouldn't think would be a good idea for Communism since all towns are somewhat productive. Maybe they think their only chance of winning is to play for 100K and pop rush a ton of culture? We'll have to keep an eye on that.
I don't see any need to change our plan yet - let them reduce the price of Communism for us, but I wouldn't research it unless we really need it.
The good news is that means they have spent 5 turns on Nationalism and will probably spend at least 5 turns on Communism plus several turns in anarchy. We should be able to detour to Hoover Dam and still get to Flight first (or go straight to Flight and get there way before the Nuts).
The bad news is Communism is very powerful once they get there, but I'm not really sure what they are doing. It looks like they are still ICSing which I wouldn't think would be a good idea for Communism since all towns are somewhat productive. Maybe they think their only chance of winning is to play for 100K and pop rush a ton of culture? We'll have to keep an eye on that.
I don't see any need to change our plan yet - let them reduce the price of Communism for us, but I wouldn't research it unless we really need it.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
I see a couple other possibilities than the Communism gambit that Chamnix mentioned. (which is a very likely)
1) We really did scare the Nuts, and they decided they may not live to infantry, and wanted rifles to defend themselves. (A poor decision… but possible)
2) They are after espionage.
Now – I'm not really familiar with how the spies work – they don't work while you're at war with someone do they?
I certainly hope not!!!
Assuming spies don't work while at war – the it really doesn’t matter which of the 3 was their motivation – as Chamnix mentioned, I think any of these options are very good for MIA. We get flight first AND Hoover dam.
1) We really did scare the Nuts, and they decided they may not live to infantry, and wanted rifles to defend themselves. (A poor decision… but possible)
2) They are after espionage.
Now – I'm not really familiar with how the spies work – they don't work while you're at war with someone do they?
I certainly hope not!!!
Assuming spies don't work while at war – the it really doesn’t matter which of the 3 was their motivation – as Chamnix mentioned, I think any of these options are very good for MIA. We get flight first AND Hoover dam.
I'm pretty sure spies do work even while at war, but to get Espionage, they need Steam Power and Industrialization first - I would still think they would get Steam before Nationalism. If they plant a spy, we will have to play a game of exposing the spy/replanting the spy to make theft unattractive to them.
Even if we scared them, I really think they are much better off defending with cavalry on rails then riflemen, but you never know what our opponents are thinking...
Even if we scared them, I really think they are much better off defending with cavalry on rails then riflemen, but you never know what our opponents are thinking...
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
oh my.... 
If spying works in wartime... then we'll have to get Espionage to even compete with them in the spy game, yes? And even then... if I remember correctly... the aggressor has a real advantage – because when they finally are successful, they can steal immediately – before the defender even gets their first shot at exposing the spy.
KISS could very conceivably convert to Communism for the Veteran Spies and play the spying game with us while Nuts research as normal. Suddenly making KISS a potentially valuable "research" partner.
This is a VERY scary scenario to me.
Please tell me I'm missing something!
If spying works in wartime... then we'll have to get Espionage to even compete with them in the spy game, yes? And even then... if I remember correctly... the aggressor has a real advantage – because when they finally are successful, they can steal immediately – before the defender even gets their first shot at exposing the spy.
KISS could very conceivably convert to Communism for the Veteran Spies and play the spying game with us while Nuts research as normal. Suddenly making KISS a potentially valuable "research" partner.
This is a VERY scary scenario to me.
Please tell me I'm missing something!
lost_civantares
[Insert Title]
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- Aug 30, 2005
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Do we know how much money they have in the bank? Spying can get really expensive.
Also something to think about is the fact that cities can not be propagandized (is that a word?) if the attacked government is a democracy, but spies are better (and therefore harder to expose) when under Communism. I don't know if that affects the prices that the nutters would have to pay though.
Also something to think about is the fact that cities can not be propagandized (is that a word?) if the attacked government is a democracy, but spies are better (and therefore harder to expose) when under Communism. I don't know if that affects the prices that the nutters would have to pay though.
I don't think you are missing anything other than as lost civantares pointed out, stealing is cheaper than self-research at this stage, but it is not that cheap. KISS' income on their own should be pretty insignificant, so if Dnuts are feeding them cash, then that is less money the Dnuts can spend on research.
Stealing is also made relatively more expensive by the fact that beakers are easier to come by at this stage than cash - scientist specialists are 50% more effective than taxmen.
Throw in the fact that researching Espionage and building the Intelligence Agency puts them several thousand beakers and several hundred shields in the hole to begin with, and the strategy is not that scary. Using that approach may be optimal for them, and the game is a long way from over, but I would still much rather be in our position than theirs.
Stealing is also made relatively more expensive by the fact that beakers are easier to come by at this stage than cash - scientist specialists are 50% more effective than taxmen.
Throw in the fact that researching Espionage and building the Intelligence Agency puts them several thousand beakers and several hundred shields in the hole to begin with, and the strategy is not that scary. Using that approach may be optimal for them, and the game is a long way from over, but I would still much rather be in our position than theirs.
Funny - just this morning I was trying to put myself in DNUT's and KISS's shoes, wondering how the game looks from their side of the world.
What is the best victory scenario?
Does KISS gain more by working with DNUTs than it will from working against both of us?
Will DNUTs look to eliminate KISS completely, and try to compete against MIA one on one?
Will they combine into a single entity, to more effectively counter our supreme economy, and how might they go about setting that up?
What sort of victory is even possible for either team right now? What does that mean for our strategy?
I suppose most of this is Grand Strategy stuff, so I'll x-post it there.
What is the best victory scenario?
Does KISS gain more by working with DNUTs than it will from working against both of us?
Will DNUTs look to eliminate KISS completely, and try to compete against MIA one on one?
Will they combine into a single entity, to more effectively counter our supreme economy, and how might they go about setting that up?
What sort of victory is even possible for either team right now? What does that mean for our strategy?
I suppose most of this is Grand Strategy stuff, so I'll x-post it there.
fe3333au
Deity
Time to send a message ... draft
It is aimed to not only have a dig at them, but also to suggest to them that we have more units defending.
Good Idea? ... or don't bother ... or add other things?
Dear Nutters
Are you enjoying the performance around Eureka Stockade ???
You may need to tell your friends that if they want to do better then they will need to send more units
Sincerely
Feaurius III
MIA Diplomatic Minister
It is aimed to not only have a dig at them, but also to suggest to them that we have more units defending.
Good Idea? ... or don't bother ... or add other things?
lost_civantares
[Insert Title]
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2005
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- 1,803
Why? They see it themselves. And we've already taunted them quite a bit, there's no reason to make a reputation of ourselves for it, and it seems pointless taunting because we're not even telling them their own troops stink but that KISS's stink? It just seems pointless to me.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
Since they are so scared of us, why don't we make them realise that their fears are well founded?
