New Short: Diplomacy System

[Krikkit1]

Diplomacy should be the possibility of annexing another civilization or sustaining a civil war with another without fighting, for example Spain in 1936, or Ukraine today or the United States in Nicaragua in 1983

Those would be IPs rather than other civs.

Ideal for a Proxy War after MAD

 

[Krikkit1]

I am most intrigued to see how this plays out between human players.

Historically, it's never been on the same level. Though Civ 6 and Beyond Earth actually made it possible that the most if not all options were equally available, however, do human players maintain their own level of relationship? Does this mean Agendas now actually work between human players?

Relationship is based on Diplomatic Actions (as seen in the video). Agendas are a minor modifier (hopefully for all players with a Leader)

 

[Jeppetto]

Oranges are now the leading cause of diptheria amongst the world's children. Don't blame me, I'm just the guy who sponsored a couple of dozen scientific studies until I got one that "proved" this to be the case and brought it to the attention of the World Congress.

- the owner of Berry Fruits Industry on decline since the initial success of Citrus Fruit Industry

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

I really hope that this works out well. If there will be a problem, it will be:

A. Too easy to generate plenty of influence and manipulate the field with tedious diplomacy.
B. Too difficult to generate influence to really utilize it therefore limiting its value.
C. Too few meaningful actions to spend diplomacy on to make it worth your time.

I hope they strike a good balance. I would even like to see things like trade agreements cost influence per turn. You would essentially be turning influence per turn into gold per turn (trade routes) but you would have to commit for a turn limit. The longer the turn limit, the better the deal. Breaking these agreements would have severe consequences diplomatically. But I just simply hope their plan works as there is about 500 ways to do this. I will be happy with any one that works well.

Basically that. Great that they're addressing the terrible diplomacy in VI, and I like the ideas presented, but it all comes down to balance; it can't be trivial mindless micro, it needs to feel significant and be worth your time, but not something that can be exploited and used against dumb AI.

 

[Nikolai II]

I don't have this problem because post-GS the Culture Victory is the only one I pursue. I used to enjoy a balance of Culture/Science victories, but GS made the Science Victory so tedious that I rarely have the patience for it anymore.

For me, the science victory is the only real victory in Civ. Been so for me since Civ1. Reach for the stars, baby!

 

[CivKirk64]

I couldn't stand the hour i'd need to spend every 30 turns asking "Would Victoria give 30 gold for my cotton? What about 25? What about 27? 28? No oops back to 27
There was a mod for VI that I like, I forget the name, that does the horse trading /bartering for you automagically and you can just decide the best deals to trade recourses. I wouldn't mind a baked in version of that feature, maybe tie the accuracy of the ideal trade to your influence spent on those leaders, and or the amount of trade routes between.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Relationship is based on Diplomatic Actions (as seen in the video). Agendas are a minor modifier (hopefully for all players with a Leader)

I didn't ask what Agendas are, I'm asked if Agendas are now actually something that affects human-to-human relationships in-game. In 6 they didn't.

We know that relationship levels make declaring war easier/harder, so does this mean Agendas actually influence human to human relations or is it strictly a AI thing.

 

[pokiehl]

I didn't ask what Agendas are, I'm asked if Agendas are now actually something that affects human-to-human relationships in-game. In 6 they didn't.

We know that relationship levels make declaring war easier/harder, so does this mean Agendas actually influence human to human relations or is it strictly a AI thing.

There is no indication that they are any different in that regard from Civ 6.

 

[Krikkit1]

I didn't ask what Agendas are, I'm asked if Agendas are now actually something that affects human-to-human relationships in-game. In 6 they didn't.

We know that relationship levels make declaring war easier/harder, so does this mean Agendas actually influence human to human relations or is it strictly a AI thing.

If I recall correctly (to my dismay) they said only gave the AI the Agenda bonuses. (hopefully I am wrong or they change it)

 

[Lord Lakely]

No, the diplo victory I'll never get because I disabled it after accidentally winning it a couple times while pursuing other victories.

i'll repeat for the nth time, copy Master of Orion's Diplomatic Victory and you're solid.

Spoiler :

No fuss, no hindrance, just two nominees based on highest population, everyone votes for a candidate based on alliances/wars, and you can always decline with no problems, or even vote for your opponent. If you want to be really cheeky you can make your opponent win, refuse the ruling and then fight everyone to death.

Effectively a way of ending (or spicing up) a game you were already winning.

 

[Vincent_lacruz]

On the video, we can notice a few things about spies:
- Counterspying is cheaper than stealing tech/civic. But it seems to be directed only against one civ, so no easy protection.
- Counterspying does not reduce the odd of success, just the odds of being discovered (decrease of relations? possible justification for official war?) and execution time.
- You can spy the position of enemy leaders, which can have a lot of applications (discover map, see if opponent can threaten you, see if you can attack vulnerable parts, etc...)
- The other two missions showed are "open the doors", which destroys the defence in a quarter (quite strong!! But timing is to be perfect) and "sabotage specialists morale" (most liquely increase happiness costs of specialists in a city, also quite strong).

So all this seems rather strong, but remember that influence won't be plentifull (or at least not early), so by using spying and sanctions you deprive yourself of beneficial effects (endeavors, more trade routes,...) and might suffer on war support...

 

[chaosprophet]

There is no indication that they are any different in that regard from Civ 6.

Also evidence on the Napoleon personas descriptions that they work as usual from this previous post of mine.

 

[Metecury]

I like what we are seeing with espionage and diplomacy. I hope unit gifting in some form of proxy war mechanic is in, even if it requires influence. It's one of the things i missed the most form CIV 5.

 

[Krikkit1]

I like what we are seeing with espionage and diplomacy. I hope unit gifting in some form of proxy war mechanic is in, even if it requires influence. It's one of the things i missed the most form CIV 5.

You can spend influence to create a unit for an IP.