Drafting a constitution

ybbor

ybbor

Will not change his avata
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Messages
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Location
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things the constitution needs to provide for:
  • adherance to the the regular MTDG constitution
  • Positions, duties, responsibilities
  • Elections/voting
  • dispute setteling between two members
  • rights of citizens
  • position of refugees
  • line of sucession/ability to delegate responsibility
  • way to ratify the constitution
  • way to amend the constitution

anyone who wants to can start picking sections and draft language; which we can then consider.

did i miss anything?
 
I dont thing you missed anything. I suppose we just start saying ideas...

adherance to the the regular MTDG constitution

Ofcourse. Something at the top like...
"This constitution is subordinate to the MTDG constitution which is in turn subordinate to the CFC forum rules."

Positions, duties, responsibilities

Team Captian and Presedent, No?
Team Captian -> keep us organised, vote in polls
Presedent -> play game, make game available, make minor descisions

Elections/voting

10, 20 turns??

dispute setteling between two members

Team Captian Job, Followed By Admin

rights of citizens

To Suggest Minor Ideas (decided on my Presedent)
To call votes on Major ideas (like war)
To call a vote of no confidence??

position of refugees

j/k Kick them out ;) - no same as on other thread

line of sucession/ability to delegate responsibility

don't know

way to ratify the constitution

vote. must win by at least 60%

way to amend the constitution

vote. must win by at least 60%

someone want to add on / make changes / make it sound leagalistic??
 
Here is my idea for positions:

President - Also Team Captain; Responsible for workers, city management, and stuff not specified to other leaders
May appoint governors to sets of cities if he/she wishes

Domestic Minister - Responsible for settlement, sliders, research, wonders, and government changes

Foreign Minister - Acts for a Diplomat when one is absent or someone isn't elected to that position; Determines trades and declarations of war, peace, allianes, and MPP

Diplomat to Team 1

Diplomat to Team 2

Diplomat to Team WHOMP

Thats 6 positions....
Another point for discussion if doing this, can diplomats hold another position?
 
Black_Hole said:
Here is my idea for positions:

President - Also Team Captain; Responsible for workers, city management, and stuff not specified to other leaders
May appoint governors to sets of cities if he/she wishes

Domestic Minister - Responsible for settlement, sliders, research, wonders, and government changes

Foreign Minister - Acts for a Diplomat when one is absent or someone isn't elected to that position; Determines trades and declarations of war, peace, allianes, and MPP

Diplomat to Team 1

Diplomat to Team 2

Diplomat to Team WHOMP

Thats 6 positions....
Another point for discussion if doing this, can diplomats hold another position?
Click to expand...

I like those last 4. I don't like the idea of a domestic minister, I want to keep all gameplay decsions in the hand of one person, The President. I'm fine with combining team captain and president; or not; either way.

my proposal for the diplomatic positions: have the foreign minister be elected, and he appoints the 3 diplomats [subject to approval by the president?]
 
ybbor said:
I like those last 4. I don't like the idea of a domestic minister, I want to keep all gameplay decsions in the hand of one person, The President. I'm fine with combining team captain and president; or not; either way.

my proposal for the diplomatic positions: have the foreign minister be elected, and he appoints the 3 diplomats [subject to approval by the president?]
Click to expand...
we can't give anyone all of the cards, 3 positions is very few... If you look at past single player demogames, the president is already counting for 6 people in this idea(President + Governors), foreign minister 3(Foreign + Trade + Back Up Diplomat), domestic minister 3(Domestic + Culture + Technology)
This is because the president basically controls all cities, in single player demogames we have governors for every 8 or so cities.... the president gets to decide all build queues which is lots of work

Thus the president has as much power as both other ministers
 
but I don't see the point in having so many positions with such a small team. With so small a team, I feel like it would be much easier to manage with a central unified government. After all, we can handle mangaging all those positions without teams, why not give that power to the president, only all he does is act on decsions from teamates. I think that's the issue here, you're acting like the President makes all these decsions himself, like in the demogame, where he's pretty much by himself for 10 turns, but in this game, all he does is act on the wishes of th people, we only play 1 turn at a time, have 3 days to discuss stratagy in general, and 24 hours to modify in accordance with anything that has happened in the last turn. The only thing the President's going to be alone ion is city build queues; and that's only toward the late game. Everything else, the President is going to have more input than he knows what to with.

_________________
Starting to draft the constitution:

Article I - The Constitution

1)This constitution shall govern the manner in which Team Missing in Action (M.I.A.) makes decsions, and acts upon them in order to play our turn of the save provided to us in through the Multi-Team DemoGame (MTDG).

2)This constitution shall regulate all members of M.I.A. and have no weight in the proceedings of other teams, nor the administrators of the MTDG. When there is a conflict percieved between this constitution an the constitution of the MTDG, The MTDG constitution shall overule the constitution of M.I.A.

Article II - Citizens

1)A citizen shall be defined as any person who has joined M.I.A. and has not withdrawen from the game. An original citizen shall be defined as a person who has joined M.I.A. before the first turn has been played, and has not withdrawn from the game. [once the game starts we'll use a date]

2)Any refugees upon joining M.I.A. will be granted the full rights of citzens.

3) Any Refugee or group of refugees who have become a citizens may ask the President Or Team Captain To sponser them for original citzenship. If either agrees, a poll shall be taken among original citzens (and those who have the voting rights as original citizens). After 72 hours if a majority of votes cast favor the original citizenship of the refugee, that person shall be granted the rights that were polled. There are 3 types of citizenships which can be polled for:
a)Full Original Citizenship: the refugee shall be granted all rights bestowed upon original citizens
b)Leadership Original Citizenship: the refugee shall be considered an original citizen for the purposes of running for elected office
c)Voting Original Citizen: the refugee shal be considered an original citzen in any matters regarding sponsorship or voting

4) Once refugees have joined M.I.A., for any refugee to be elected to office that refugee get 1 original member of M.I.A. to sponser his candidacy, and must have at least 1/5 of the votes from the original members of team M.I.A. If the candidate who would otherwise have the majority does not quailfy because of this rule, the candidate of the original team M.I.A. who has the most votes shall be declared the winner and shall have all the powers and duties that the candidate would have had if he had won the election with a majority

Article III - Leadership

still under discussion

Arctile IV - Ratifying and amedning the Constitution

pending
 
It would be good if everyone here had a position of some sort, but not everyone wants to be active. I am a bit surprised that we might want to have the Prez to also be the team Captain. We do not want to have too much power in the hands of one person, but then we do not want to have too many positions that are empty.
 
Starting to draft the constitution:

Article I - The Constitution

1)This constitution shall govern the manner in which Team Missing in Action (M.I.A.) makes decsions, and acts upon them in order to play our turn of the save provided to us in through the Multi-Team DemoGame (MTDG).

2)This constitution shall regulate all members of M.I.A. and have no weight in the proceedings of other teams, nor the administrators of the MTDG. When there is a conflict percieved between this constitution and the constitution of the MTDG, or the forum rules, The MTDG constitution, or forum rules, shall overule the constitution of M.I.A.

Article II - Citizens

1)A citizen shall be defined as any person who has joined M.I.A. and has not withdrawen from the game. An original citizen shall be defined as a person who has joined M.I.A. before the first turn has been played, and has not withdrawn from the game. [once the game starts we'll use a date]

2)Any refugees upon joining M.I.A. will be granted the full rights of citzens.

3) Any Refugee or group of refugees who have become a citizens may ask the President Or Team Captain To sponser them for original citzenship. If either agrees, a poll shall be taken among original citzens (and those who have the voting rights as original citizens). After 72 hours if a majority of votes cast favor the original citizenship of the refugee, that person shall be granted the rights that were polled. There are 3 types of citizenships which can be polled for:
a)Full Original Citizenship: the refugee shall be granted all rights bestowed upon original citizens
b)Leadership Original Citizenship: the refugee shall be considered an original citizen for the purposes of running for elected office
c)Voting Original Citizen: the refugee shal be considered an original citzen in any matters regarding sponsorship or voting

4) Once refugees have joined M.I.A., for any refugee to be elected to office that refugee get 1 original member of M.I.A. to sponser his candidacy, and must have at least 1/5 of the votes from the original members of team M.I.A. If the candidate who would otherwise have the majority does not quailfy because of this rule, the candidate of the original team M.I.A. who has the most votes shall be declared the winner and shall have all the powers and duties that the candidate would have had if he had won the election with a majority

5)All Citizens have the right to assemble, the right to free movement, the right to free speech, the right to a fair trial, the right to representation, the right to demand satisfaction and the right to vote.


Article III - Leadership

still under discussion

Arctile IV - Ratifying and amending the Constitution

1)This constitution Shall take effect once a poll has been taken of all citizens of M.I.A. This poll must be open for 72 hours, anonymous, obtain a 2/3 majority in favor (not including absatians) of adopting, and at least 50% of citizens must vote (including abstains).

2)Polls to amend the Constitution shall be posted by the President or Team captain[?]. The poll must be open for 72 hours, anonymous, obtain a 60% majority in favor (not including absatians) of adopting, and at least 35% of citizens must vote (including abstains).
 
Just for reference, I have copied the Fanatica Constitution. This was the ISDG constitution.
Code: 
[B]Article A[/B]
All Civfanatics Forum users who register in the Citizen Registry
are citizens of Fanatica. Citizens have the right to assemble,
the right to free movement, the right to free speech, the right to
a fair trial, the right to representation, the right to demand
satisfaction and the right to vote.

[B]Article B[/B]
Governing rules shall consist of the Articles of the Constitution,
the Code of Laws and the Code of Standards.
 §1. No laws shall be passed that conflict with an article and no
     standards shall be used that conflict with a law or an article.
 §2. In addition to these laws, all citizens of Fanatica shall abide
     by the ISDGs Official Rules of Play.

[B]Article C[/B]
The government will consist of the Administrative Council,
the Assembly and the Judicial Council.

[B]Article D[/B]
The Administrative Council consists of the Consul of Internal
Affairs, the Consul of Foreign Affairs and the Consul of Military
Affairs.
 §1. The Consul of Internal Affairs is in charge of the nation.
     He acts as the head of state and government for Fanatica.
     He shall be the primary person in charge of playing the save
     game.
 §2. The Consul of Internal Affairs handles all aspects of the game
     directly related to the care and management of the cities,
     and of the national tax rates. He also oversees the nation's
     scientists in their work.
 §3. The Consul of Foreign Affairs handles all diplomacy conducted
     with foreign nations. This includes the negotiation of treaties
     and trade agreements.
 §4. The Consul of Military Affairs is the general of the army, navy,
     and air force. He handles all movement of units, except for
     workers and settlers.
 §5. No citizen shall hold multiple Consul offices simultaneously.
 §6. Each Consul shall appoint one Deputy.
 §7. The Consuls may delegate their powers as they see fit by
     creating and appointing citizens to Offices.

[B]Article E[/B]
The Assembly shall consist of the entirety of the citizenry.
The Assembly shall be the legislative body in the government.
 §1. For each term there will be a stickied thread for the Assembly.
     Here all legislative discussions will be held.

[B]Article F[/B]
The Judicial Council will be formed of the Justice of the Court of
Fanatica. He shall handle all judicial matters of the county,
including interpretation of the Constitution, laws, and Public Investigations.
 §1. No citizen shall hold a Consul position in conjunction with the
     position of Justice of the Court.
 §2. The Justice of the Court may delegate judical powers as the Justice
     see fit by creating and appointing citizens to Offices.

[B]Article G[/B]
The offices of Consuls, Justice of the Court and Ambassadors, will be
filled via election with terms lasting according to a fixed schedule
based on game years.
 §1. There shall be equal terms of 25 turns each and elections shall
     be held accordingly.

[B]Article H[/B]
All officials must plan and act according to the will of the people.

[B]Article I[/B]
It is unlawful to play through actions, move troops, make deals or
take any other action that would change the state of the playing
game from that of the saved game.

[B]Article J[/B]
The constitution, laws and standards of Fanatica can never be
contrary to the rules and regulations of the Civfanatics forums.
Moderators may veto any such constitutional amendments,
laws or standards.

[B]Article K[/B]
A majority of the active Assembly shall be required to amend
the Constitution.
 §1. The average of the number of votes cast in each of the most
     recent contested elections shall constitute the active Assembly.
 §2. Polls to amend the Constitution must be open for a minimum of 72 hours.

[B]Article L[/B]
A majority of the votes in a poll lasting minimum 48 hours is required
to amend the Code of Laws.
 §1. The poll must also recieve a number of votes equal to or
     greater than half of the active Assembly.

[B]Article M[/B]
The Consul of Foreign Affairs, the Foreign Affairs Deputy and the
Consul of Internal Affairs are de-facto ambassadors to all nations.
Regular Ambassadors are elected each term.
 §1. Ambassadors shall only be chosen when Fanatikou has made
     in-game contact with a rival civilization.

[B]Article N[/B]
 §1. In the event a Consul or Justice of the Court takes a temporary leave
     of absence, the Official shall appoint a pro-tempore official to fill
     that position until the Official shall return.
       a. The pro-tempore official may be the Consuls deputy.
       b. The Official may empower another official or citizen to
          choose the pro-tempore official.
 §2. In the event an Official becomes vacant, a new Official shall be
     appointed.
       a. In the event the Consul of Internal Affairs becomes
          vacant, the Justice of the Court shall appoint a new citizen
          to fill the vacant position.
       b. In the event the Consul of Foreign Affairs or the Consul of
          Military Affairs becomes vacant, the Consul of Internal Affairs
          shall apoint a new citizen to fill the vacant position.
       c. If the position of Ambassador to any nation becomes
          vacant, the Consul of Foreign Affairs shall appoint a new citizen
          to fill the vacant position.
       d. If the position of Justice of the Court becomes vacant,
          the citizens shall elect a new Justice of the Court.
            1. There will be a 24 hour period where citizens can be nominated.
            2. After the nominations there will be a 48 hour poll to
               elect the Justice of the Court. A simple majority are needed.
 §3. Should the citizen filling the position of Consul of Internal Affairs
     become absent for a period of seven (7) days without prior
     notification to the nation, the Justice of the Court may remove that
     citizen from the office and appoint another citizen as the Consul.
 §4. Should citizens filling the positions of Consul of Foreign Affairs
     or Consul of Military Affairs become absent for a period of
     seven (7) days without prior notification to the nation,
     the Consul of Internal Affairs may remove that citizen from the
     office and appoint another citizen as the Consul.
 §5. Should citizens filling one of the Ambassadorial positions
     become absent for a period of seven (7) days without prior
     notification to the nation, the Consul of Foreign Affairs may remove
     that citizen from the office and appoint another citizen as the Ambassador.
 §6. All appointments must be approved by a citizen poll lasting 48
     hours. A simple majority is needed for ratification.
       a. The newly appointed official may act as the official of his office,
          from the time of his appointment and until the poll closes.

[B]Article O[/B]
Treaties and agreements with foreign nations may be ratified by
Fanatica with a poll open for minimum 48 hours. A simple
majority of voters is required to ratify the treaty or agreement.
 §1. In matters of extremely urgent national security (ex. impending
     invasion), the Administrative Council may chose to sign the treaty,
     making it binding for all of Fanatikou. However, the Chief Jutice
     would have to verify that is was indeed a matter of extremely
     urgent national security.
 
Team Captain (Title at his/her choosing) - Represents Team in UN, Head of State, keeps people in line, appoints President if he goes MIA, appoints ambassadors

President - Head of Goverment, plays turn, appoints people to help him, also heads relations with other teams, powers can be delegated out

Term is 20 turns, President elected once every term, Team Captain every 2?

As for refugees, I like artical 3, but after they are granted the right citizenship, they do not need any of the original team's support.

As for me, I am leaving tommarow, and do not plan to be back untill August 11. may pop in around Aug 1, but that is the most I can do. Wish you guys luck while I am gone.
 
I would prefer that Team Captain and President to be separate.

Team Captain is the representative for all team affairs in the UN. He speaks on behalf of the team. The team captain will set up polls as requested by the various ministers.

President is also the Designated Player. He plays the save and is responsible for workers.

Military Minister. He is responible for all miltary units. He is reponsible for the building, upgrading and the placement of units.

Domestic Minister. He is in charge of placing cities, the slider settings, what we research, what government we should be in, and wonder building.

Foreign Minister. He is in charge of trade and is the Diplomat for all dealings with other teams, until we have a appionted a diplomat to the other teams. All dealings with other nataions must be approved by the minister.

Diplomats. There are responsible for discussions with with the team they are assigned.
 
Following from ybbor's brilliant start ... I'd like to change the wording ...

Basically changed so that unless Naturalised or Founder you cannot vote in elections or hold positions ... everyone can vote in polls and discuss things ... :D

In Australia we have Permanent Residents which live and work in the country but cannot vote ... ummm ... also thrown the document through a spell checker so Our constitution is now in Australian English ... or it follows the original spelling conventions :p

-----------------------------------

Article II - Citizens

1)A citizen shall be defined as any person who has joined M.I.A. and has not withdrawn from the game.

2)A citizen of M.I.A. is made up of the following classes - Founder, Natural and Refugee, and also a Resident.

2.a)A Founder citizen is defined as a person who has joined M.I.A. before the first turn has been played, and has not withdrawn from the game. [once the game starts we'll use a date]

2.b)A Natural citizen is defined as a person who has joined M.I.A. after the first turn has been played, and has not withdrawn from the game. [once the game starts we'll use a date]

2.c)A Refugee is defined as a person, who was originally a citizen of another team, who has joined M.I.A., and has not withdrawn from the game.

2.d)A Resident citizen is defined as a Lurker or a Refugee. These citizens may engage in discussion and vote in general polls, but not vote in elections.

EDIT and ASIDE - I think our resident Lurker (Mr Grimes) should actually be defined as a Founder ... but one who chooses not to take office :mischief:

3.)Any Refugee who wishes to become a Natural citizen may ask the President Or Team Captain to sponsor them to become Naturalised and gain the right to vote and to hold office. If either agrees, a poll shall be taken among the remaining Founders. After 72 hours if a majority of votes cast favour the naturalization of the refugee, that person shall be defined as a Natural citizen with all the rights that title holds.

4) Once refugees have joined M.I.A., for any refugee to be elected to office that refugee get 1 Founder of M.I.A. to sponsor his candidacy, and must have at least 1/5 of the votes from the Natural citizens of team M.I.A.

5)All Citizens have the right to assemble, the right to free movement, the right to free speech, the right to a fair trial, the right to representation, the right to demand satisfaction and the right to vote in general polls.


Article III - Leadership

still under discussion

Article IV - Ratifying and amending the Constitution

1)This constitution Shall take effect once a poll has been taken of all citizens of M.I.A. This poll must be open for 72 hours, anonymous, obtain a 2/3 majority in favour (not including abstains) of adopting, and at least 50% of citizens must vote (including abstains).

2)Polls to amend the Constitution shall be posted by the President or Team captain[?]. The poll must be open for 72 hours, anonymous, obtain a 60% majority in favour (not including abstains) of adopting, and at least 35% of citizens must vote (including abstains).
 
fe3333au said:
EDIT and ASIDE - I think our resident Lurker (Mr Grimes) should actually be defined as a Founder ... but one who chooses not to take office :mischief:
Click to expand...

I mentioned this in a different thread, but I'll restate:

I think I am using the term Lurker incorrectly. When I discovered that there isn't a Civ3 release with multiplayer for iMac, I assumed I wouldn't be able to have as full a participation as other players/citizens. So I asked to be allowed to watch the goings-on from this forum. Having reviewed the poll results from the 'how often will you download' thread, I now realize there are other blind citizens out there like me.

I would love to be able to download the save, but since I can't, I'll enjoy as much participation as is feasable.

As far as taking office, let's not worry about that now. There is much I need to learn before that would be a concern :)
 
Here's my attmept at article III. I'm going mainly on the assumption from this poll; that we want every position that's been named. I used he because i don't think we have any female players (and don't forsee many coming)

Article III- leadership

1) The president shall be the designated player; meaning Hhe plays the save. When playing the save he has the responsibility to carry out the decsions of other leaders. He is responsible for workers, city management, and powers and responsibilities not specified to other leaders. This position shall be elected every term.

2)The Team captain shall Represent our Team in the UN, Shall maintain order in the team. This position shall be elected every other term.

3)The Domestic Minister shall be Responsible for settlement, sliders, research, wonders, and government changes, and all duties and powers affecting the economy not specified to other leaders. This position Shall be elected every term.

4)The Defense Misister is responible for all miltary units. He is reponsible for the building, upgrading and the placement of units. This position shall be elected every term.

5)The foreign Minister Acts for a Diplomat when one is absent or someone cannot fill the position; Determines trades and declarations of war, peace, alliances, and MPP. All dealings with other nataions must be approved by the minister. He appoints a single diplomat to every remaining team, unless he cannot find anyone willing to fill the position. This position shall be elected every term.

6)The Diplomats to other teams are appointed by the Foreign minister. They shall be responsible for discussions and trades with other teams.

pending: elections, terms, delegation, and line of sucsesion.
 
classical_hero said:
We need to define what a term is? I will set up a poll about that.
Click to expand...

no; 20 will be fine, the poll is the ratification process
 
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