DreadNES - Fall of Rome
- Thread starter Dreadnought
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uubry
Deamon Deacon
To all Germanian lands: I suggest a truce so that we all can garner the lands of Gaul!
Dreadnought
Deity
Xen said:
Eastern and Western Rome battled each other for Illyria, but since the Eastern eventually got it I gave it to them.
Dreadnought
Deity
Legions are the main fighting force of Rome, although they aren't the same I called them Legions because Aux. are another unit.
Aux. are archers, etc. of Rome that aren't the main fighting force.
Aux. are archers, etc. of Rome that aren't the main fighting force.
Dreadnought
Deity
I will do a sort of "begining update" tomarrow
1)the eastern empire eventually got Illyira? No, they didnt; Justinian woudl eventually conqoure the region, but that was in his attempt to re-unite the empire, and after the west had already falled
2)Legions dont exist in any vestige; even the names have changed; to reflect the reforms of Constantine that destroyed the Roman military after the successful reforms of Diocletian, you should make it purelly infantry, but classify it as according to its feild- designation; Limitanei; under the constantine system, these are little more then local militia- Comitatensis; local forces, and actually worth somthing- and Palantina; the elite troops, and the sole part of the army that was comparable to anypart of the old Imperial orginization, or even the reformed army of Diocletian.
2)Legions dont exist in any vestige; even the names have changed; to reflect the reforms of Constantine that destroyed the Roman military after the successful reforms of Diocletian, you should make it purelly infantry, but classify it as according to its feild- designation; Limitanei; under the constantine system, these are little more then local militia- Comitatensis; local forces, and actually worth somthing- and Palantina; the elite troops, and the sole part of the army that was comparable to anypart of the old Imperial orginization, or even the reformed army of Diocletian.
Princeps
More bombs than God
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Xen said:
Yes they do, the other names were only names of different units and such, legionary was still a word for the 'soldier', I think...
Libya belongs to the west too...
Constantine didn't destroy the army, he did what was neccesary, the Empire needed border guard troops. There were still legionaries but they were called Comitatenses.
Comitatenses was effective, and could be highly effective as Julian showed. The Comitatenses was the core of the main army, armed and trained like legionaries.
Palatina troops were more of a bodyguard troops. I think you're underestamating (sp?) the late Roman army. The Late Roman army's problem wasn't tactical or in the military method of fighting, but the problem was really logistical, there simply was not enough fighting men to protect the borders.'
The late Roman army was heavy cavalry centric, it relied on the heavy cavalry troops, such as the Scholae whatever, to make the first push, the heavy infantry was lighter now as it had to support the cavalry, not other way around. BTW, if you want to argue with me, sent a PM, because lets not ruin this NES.
actually, the term "legionary" wasnt used for soldires at all; its out own modern interpriation of the particuler status of the soldires in a legion that leads us to give them a specific name- to the Romans, the standard soldire, what we call a legionary, was just a "Milite", or "Miles"- that is to sau, soldirenaziassbandit said:
this shows a basic ignorence of the Constantinian reforms; both the Comites, and the Lim's. were put in place by Diocletian; the main main difference is that under Diocletian, Comit. units were rotated around the empire; giving Lim. units a chance to work under new drills, and learn new techniques that they otherwise would not be exposed to; Constantine ended this rotation, and the end result was stagnation, and eventual degeneration of the quality of troops throught the empire; mor eover, it was constanine who officially ended the Legion system, spreading out and seperating the 60 legions (30 of which had been freshlly created) by Diocletian, primairlly over politically worries, and not with the foresight of Diocletian about having central nerve centers of dispatchable forces spread throughout the frontir; rather he created more or less a constant line of force to resist raiding, and kept the comites in towns and cities; generally rather far off from the frontir they had to protect
if you actually care to look, constantine had between double, and 4 times as many soldires as trajan had availinle to him, and this enlarged army, and it's ineffective upkeep was to stay around; the main flaw in diocletians reforms was puttign the tax burden on the lower class (which only grew more heavy under constantine mind you) and agian, ruined the system that kept forces fresh and drille dunder a ocnstant rotation of commanders whom didnt stay long enough to grow complacent, and coudl introduce to thier troops new fighting styles and techniques
as for the Palantina, they served the same purpose that the Praetorian guard, and lesser known "Imperial Cavalry wing" based in Northern Italy (both of which had been abolished by constantine; the praetorians had already been restricted to rome, unless special orders came by Diocletian; Constaitne outright abolished them, and with it, a stratige reserve; yes they were constant political trouble, but if left in Rome, they coudl still be kept as the central reserve force they had been acting as since the time of Trajan)
1)not true at all; the infantry was never meant to fight as light or medium troops, it was the ineffectiveness that resulted of constantines further reforms of already reformed army of Diocletian that lead to its degeneration in quality, both in th emen in uniform, and the equipment they were armed with- cavalry, both heavy and light, had already been a major part of the Roman army since Trajan, who created the first wing of Roman cataphracts
2)my arguments are too long to be handled in PM
- my suggestion is to buy this book, and let it enlighten you- its a fabulous book, I highlly recomend it to anyone interested in history at all: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...2?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance
Dreadnought
Deity
Guys, please don't spam the thread with your arguements. If you wish to argue please take it to the History forum.
BTW, the Roman transformation to mainly cavalry A: Mainly only happened in the east B: didn't happen yet.
BTW, the Roman transformation to mainly cavalry A: Mainly only happened in the east B: didn't happen yet.
Dreadnought
Deity
Update I
For the past 300 years Rome has ruled the Mediterranean. Their empire streches from Britian in the North, the Egypt in the south, from Spain in the west, to Armenia in the West. But alas Rome is divided; the mighty empire is now two nations. Rome has never been weaker! So the countless barbarians have decided that this year, 370 AD, they will enter Roman territory and plunder the riches of Rome.
But Rome is still powerful; her Legions amassed at Hadrians Wall, the Rhine Limes, The Danube Defenses, and the Syrian Limes await the onslaught, as they had for centuries past. Rome itself if a diamond in a land of gold; whoever sacks Rome, plunders the wealth of the empire. Constantinople, the growing city that was once Byzantium, is the jewel of the east. And the protect Rome's wealth, thousands of soldiers, Romans and barbarians, are willing to sacrifice their lives.
In the east, Sassanid Persia is expanding towards Syria, and conflict with Rome is brewing.
Which of Rome's enemies will sack Rome, and plunder the riches of the world?
For the past 300 years Rome has ruled the Mediterranean. Their empire streches from Britian in the North, the Egypt in the south, from Spain in the west, to Armenia in the West. But alas Rome is divided; the mighty empire is now two nations. Rome has never been weaker! So the countless barbarians have decided that this year, 370 AD, they will enter Roman territory and plunder the riches of Rome.
But Rome is still powerful; her Legions amassed at Hadrians Wall, the Rhine Limes, The Danube Defenses, and the Syrian Limes await the onslaught, as they had for centuries past. Rome itself if a diamond in a land of gold; whoever sacks Rome, plunders the wealth of the empire. Constantinople, the growing city that was once Byzantium, is the jewel of the east. And the protect Rome's wealth, thousands of soldiers, Romans and barbarians, are willing to sacrifice their lives.
In the east, Sassanid Persia is expanding towards Syria, and conflict with Rome is brewing.
Which of Rome's enemies will sack Rome, and plunder the riches of the world?
Get orders in by tomarrow so that the REAL update can begin!
Dreadnought
Deity
The Persians, Micromanni, and Angles need to send orders.
Dreadnought
Deity
NVM, not Micro.
