[DRN-001] BtS Any Which Way You Can

[Sorceresss]

Yeah, coloseums and theaters before jails in my book.

If you read my recent turn's analysis, you will see that I did build a few colosseums & theaters.

I went a little overboard on jail-construction, though.

I built a few walls only because those were short-term projects that would not tie my successor's hands.

 

[pigswill]

I was a bit surprised when I opened the save to see that Chicago had built both National Epic and Oxford University. I tend to combine National Epic with Globe to get GP Farm as big as possible so I can run more specialists and tend to put Oxford in a city with lots of cottages. Having said that I'm more comfortable with a cottage economy than specialist economy anyway.

We're short of a really decent production city. Boston looks like the most likely candidate; maybe build ironworks there (need more forges first however). Do we combine Ironworks with Moai Statues? Ifwe do that then I guess we need to find a secondary production city to focus on military production to house Heroic Epic and West Point.

New York should be focussing more on money making as its our shrine city; market, grocer and bank initially and probably Wall Street later. Might be worth spreading confucianism to selected neighbours.

The more I think about the more I think that this is not the time for war. Yes we could focus on military production and no doubt could roll over a couple of civs. However we've got enough cities for space victory. I also don't see the point of capturing lots of cities just to turn them into colonies when they get too expensive to run. We could carry on working on tech and infrastructure.

It would however be handy to build up a navy; privateers to annoy all and sundry and also ships of the line to counter the privateers that will sooner or later be heading our way.

I'm not sure where we're heading tech wise at this point. We could go for instance physics electricity radio mass media; build the entertainment wonders and maybe UN. We could also go for assembly line. Maybe railroad/combustion.
Biology seems pretty essential whatever we do.

Are we aiming for specialist economy or swopping over to cottage economy. Specialist economy we'd stick with caste and representation, switch to mercentalism forfree specialist. Cottage economy means swoping to Emancipation in the first instance, probably with Free Market and think about US andFree Speech later.

Any thoughts on city specialisation?

Are we thinking about establishing corporation(s)and if so which?

 

[njorls]

Lots of questions there

I would like to see at least 1 major war this game. With us as the aggressor. If we tech to our unique unit and do it that's fine with me

Boston does look like a production city, maybe Miami with watermills and levees? Philadelphia would be good if we could take the 2 mines Chicago's working.

For economy, a cottage economy is fine, we seem to have built a lot of them and turning them into towns for +1 hammer would be a good idea.

Navy sounds good, privateers sound fun. We could use our current build up as a deterrrent.

City specialisation:
Atlanta, New York, Los Angelas, San Francisco: Commerce
Chicago: Science, great people
Boston, Miami, Philadelphia: Production

 

[Sorceresss]

The more I think about the more I think that this is not the time for war. Yes we could focus on military production and no doubt could roll over a couple of civs. However we've got enough cities for space victory. I also don't see the point of capturing lots of cities just to turn them into colonies when they get too expensive to run. We could carry on working on tech and infrastructure.

I would like to see at least 1 major war this game. With us as the aggressor.

By temperament & gameplay style, I am biased in favour of pigswill's preference, but I would be curious to contemplate how you guys would carry on a major war.

 

[yena]

my 2

We are doing fine on most fronts, but need to improve productivity. I suggest heading for assembly lines and railroads, and then build factories where it makes sense. We should also get Biology sooner rather than later to grow our cities a bit more.

I don't agree with city wall construction. We are much more likely to attack than defend, and the hammer would be better spent on navy and army. A new war isn't really necessary (I think we can pull of a space race quite easily), but it seems that many of you want to pick on someone, and I don't mind. However, we need at least one turn set of military builds before we will be able to declare war on anyone. I suggest we join the war on the Babylonians, first upgrading our catapults to cannon, and building more cannons and grenadiers. We could use a few spies as well. Our main goal should be Babylon with its Buddhist shrine.

 

[njorls]

Agree on walls, I never build those. Babylon sounds like a good (small) military goal.

 

[doronron]

Get us an effective navy. That will serve as our homeland's wall. With that, we can build our infrastructure and tech up.

 

[azaris]

Like I said, it depends on what Cathy does. If she comes down hard on Hammurabi we mustn't interfere or there is the risk that we take one Babylonian city and then Hammurabi capitulates to Cathy. That would be a total disaster. We might even have to declare on Cathy to keep Hammurabi free.

 

[doronron]

So, should we join or should we sit this one out and prepare for a three way later?

 

[yena]

Like Azaris said, it depends. We need an army and a navy anyway, so let's build some military and look at the situation again once we have the means of making some mischief Isn't it time for another update btw?

 

[doronron]

Yeah, it is. I think we're waiting on Pigswill.

 

[pigswill]

Haven't forgotten but been busy with other stuff. Will play and post this evening.

 

[doronron]

Cool. Looking forward to it!

 

[pigswill]

Played 10 turns so far; five to go.

A few things have happened: used a GS to build an academy in Atlanta; rest of our GPs are in Washington. Started to specialise cities a bit. Swopped to emancipation to speed up cottage growth.

After PP I switched to Communism mainlyfor the free Great Spy.

We're at war with Ham at Cat's request (I'd already upset her by refusing to give her nationalism). We've captured Babylon. Lost a few ships (several more injured).

We got a quest to build 8 muskets with bonus for vassalage and Taj Mahal so I'm pursuing that one.

We've got a GG. There's a chariot standing by to become a medic3 warlord (also opens up Heroic Epic and West Point) or he could found a mil academy or become an MI. My preference is for Medic3 but I'll get other people's views. Boston is building Moia statues.

 

[Sorceresss]

We're at war with Ham [...] We've captured Babylon.

You're an awesome Warlord !

 

[doronron]

Tough call on the GG. West Point's very nice. Settling him would make our units a lillte bit stronger, though.

 

[pigswill]

Played 15 turns up to 1625.

Here's the 1625 save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/90414/MDR_AD-1625.CivBeyondSwordSave

Pre-turn:
Went through and labelled the cities by specialisation. Washington spy city, New York money city (we have another contender but more later), Chicago GP factory, Boston, Philadelphia and Miami production cities, rest commerce.
We've got two forges built so far, need six for ironworks. Several changes to build orders, originals left in queue.
Start sending galleons and units towards a neat stack up north.
Went through our various deals and trades; made a few changes:
Sitting Bull: Open Borders, deer for sheep, 7gpt for silk.
Catherine: Rice free to a good friend ) ), banana for pig. Gave her DR for free.
Zara: wheat for 9pt.
Brennus: spice +14gpt for horse.
Revolt to Emancipation

The Set
T331. Anarchy.
Brennus build Sankore Uni.
Hammurabi: Open Borders, 8gpt for pig.
Academy in Atlanta.

T332.
Stalin offers Open Borders, accepted. Gift him music. Goes from annoyed to cautious.
Washington Walls> Sec Bureau.
SF Lib>Uni.
Research 70%.

T333.
Printing Press> Communism (free Spy, Kremlin, State property).
Miami Theatre>Forge
Cat adopts theocracy.

T334. zzz

T335.
Cat demands Nationalism. Think about it then refuse.

T336.
Cat asks we join the war against Babylon. Agree:

We've already upset her. This way we'll get mutual military. Our troops will get some xp towards a GG.
Lose deals with Hammurabi. research 60% +39gpt.
Roosevelt the Colonist demands MilSci for free. refused.
Roosevelt: stone for fish +pig. Hurrah, cheaper wonders, we've got marble already.
Sell gunpowder to Cat for 780g smoke: ?). Upgrade a couple of chariots to cuirassiers.

T337.
Quest: Build 8 muskets before rifling or railroads; bonus for vassalage and Taj Mahal. Switch builds to muskets in most cities. Revolt to Vassalage.

T338.
Anarchy!
Setback in research (random event ).
Embark army.

T339.
Army lands nr Babylon (4 grens,3 cuir,musket,cat). Babylon 60% defence,defended by LB, XB, sword and cat. Also has 4 caravels, 6 triremes, 6 galleys.
Navy scuffles.

T340.
Sell lit to SB for 190g +WM.
Battle of Babylon. Don't bombard, straight assault. Lose cuirassier. Capture Babylon (odds 70-80%). 225g. Mahabodi .
More navy scuffles.
GG in Washington. Becomes warlord (medic 3, move 3, march), renamed Sherman Lee (feel free to change it again).

T341.
More navy scuffles.
Hammurabi gets GG.

T342.
Communism>Steam Power.
Great Spy in Washington creates Scotland Yard (Washington's 2nd national wonder).
More navy scuffles.
Brennus joins the dogpile on Ham.

T343. zzz

T344. zzz.

T345.
Start bombarding Akkad.
Sell DR to Brenuus for 430g.
Zara: wheat for 11gpt.

Thoughts and Suggestions:
I apologise if I've upset anyone by changing build orders.

In terms of navy scuffles we lost a couple of galleons, sank at least a dozen babylonian boats. But I haven't done any more navy builds. Boston finishes Moia Statues next turn, maybe build a couple of frigates then a dockyard there, possibly West Point for charismatic lvl3 ships.

MaybeWashington could build Kremlin after finishes Sec Bureau. Bit of a problem with Washington is that it had a settled Great Spy as well as Heroic Epic so it was difficult to decide if its a spy city or a military city. I decided to turn it into spy city but that could have been a mistake. On the other hand once Kremlin's built it can then focus on units (we could build Kremlin elsewhere but it seems synergistic with spy city). I'd like us to build Kremlin because rush buy with a cottage economy and modern civics is a way to progress very rapidly.

In terms of the Babylonian war I'd like us to take Akkad because its got rice (and Cat will probably cancel the rice gift at some point) and helps us to secure Babylon's dyes. WW is becoming a problem, Chicago has lost 3 specialists and oher cities are working food tiles primarily to prevent starvation. After Akkad we could capture cities, raze cities or just settle for peace. With Babylon and Akkad lost I can't see Hammurabi becoming a major threat in the game. even as someone else's vassal.

Maybe Philadelphia could build a levee once it finishes current forge, should improve it as a production city.

Maybe New York could build a bank after market to exploit the shrine.

If we leave the current musket builds untouched that should complete the Quest. No idea what the reward will be, but we may as well finish it now (unless Cat gets in first).

In terms of research Brennus is researching Scimeth. If he goesa fter physics it might be worth racing him for physics to get the free GS.

We'll need corporation at some point for assembly line but it would nerf free trade routes from Glight so I'm not sure its a priority.

Are we planning on forming corporations? We could simply forget them and run State Property but its something to be debated.

In regard to civics we could switch out of vassalage once quest is completed (3 or 4 turns left I think). Go back to bureaucracy or switch to free speech? Worth checking how close we are to towns now that we've been running emancipation for the last 14 turns.

Some pretty pictures to round up the report:

Sory the set's taken so long to complete.

 

[yena]

This is my got it. I was a bit surprised to hear that we are at war given how skimpy our military was at the start of this set, but it is great that Pigswill took Babylon with so small loses. The +33 gold shrine is a wonderful addition to the empire.

I'm a bit worried about the rest of the war. Our army is too small to take the rest of the cities on the main island in only a couple of turns, and the risk of Hammurabi capitulating to another AI seems great. It would obviously not be in our interest. We could bribe Catherine and Brennus to make peace with Hammurabi, but it would be expensive. Could anyone with experience of the vassal system give some advice?

 

[njorls]

Looks like a very well set of turns played.

The 33 gpt shrine is just awesome, taking the 2 cities that put cultural pressure on it and suing for peace is a good plan I think. Or just Akkad. Talking the rest of Hammurabi's cities isn't that big a priority partly due to his annoying tendancy to settle on resources this game.

I really like your National Park city. We should build one there, don't chop any forests around it. We will get 1 free specialist per forest preserve around the city, that would be 7 free specialists (I think, checked the save at home but I'm at work now).

I like your signs on the map and the specialisation per city. We should follow that. Your suggested list of builds sound good as well. More navy is a top priority, maybe the muskets that finish the quest will be enough to finish the war to our liking.

I'd like to do corporations, I haven't done them yet and would like to see how they work. Sid's Sushi seems popular. It would also help me cure my state property addiction.

 

[azaris]

The problem with the National Park is getting it built with almost no hammer production in the city. Either we have to cash rush it or waste a GE, which were unlikely to get in the near future. Is anyone else amazed at how a national park can cost the same as the Globe Theatre? It's a park! Put up some signs and hire some park rangers and you're done!

Why are we spying on Roosevelt but not on Stalin?

Babylon should be designated as a commerce city.

If we want to dabble with corps, I suggest founding Standard Ethanol (Plastics). We have a surplus of silk and sugar and could make a nice amount of beakers in Chicago. Or spread it to Hawaii to make money (you have to gift a resource to Roosevelt first). It would also secure oil in case our continent doesn't have any.