Duplicate resource suggestion

[greygamer]

Currently 1 luxury gives +1 to 4 cities. perhaps each additional copy could increase the number of cites by 1. You would still need entertainment districts but would have some purpose to trading for extra luxuries.

 

[legalizefreedom]

Currently 1 luxury gives +1 to 4 cities. perhaps each additional copy could increase the number of cites by 1. You would still need entertainment districts but would have some purpose to trading for extra luxuries.

That would be a bit much. Since every copy above 1 would increase the number of cities that EVERY luxury covered.

If you are talking about just per luxury, then it has the same effect as being +1 amenity.

 

[Ryika]

I think if they made it so multiple Copies of a Luxury could cover more city, that would work pretty well, if at the same time they increase the amount of amenities required to make up for that, because otherwise Entertainment Districts become totally useless with the extra Cities being covered (because smaller cities would just run on copies, and all uniques would go into big cities).

That would have some benefits, namely that duplicates would be more than just trade goods, and some downsides... the main one being that you'd probably almost never want to trade away duplicates anymore, unless you literally have so many of them that that all your cities are already covered. But that downside could of course be somewhat covered by diminishing returns. Still, I think such a change would have a tendency to lean towards "Never export, always import!"-gameplay, which wouldn't be that much fun in my opinion.

 

[UWHabs]

I think if they made it so multiple Copies of a Luxury could cover more city, that would work pretty well, if at the same time they increase the amount of amenities required to make up for that, because otherwise Entertainment Districts become totally useless with the extra Cities being covered (because smaller cities would just run on copies, and all uniques would go into big cities).

That would have some benefits, namely that duplicates would be more than just trade goods, and some downsides... the main one being that you'd probably almost never want to trade away duplicates anymore, unless you literally have so many of them that that all your cities are already covered. But that downside could of course be somewhat covered by diminishing returns. Still, I think such a change would have a tendency to lean towards "Never export, always import!"-gameplay, which wouldn't be that much fun in my opinion.

Well, there would still be cases that you'd want to export:
-If you only have 4-5 cities, then the extra copies don't give too much.
-If it costs the same to trade, then you're still getting an extra bonus from swapping with something you don't have.
-Since most of the time, you probably have some cities that need luxuries more than others, selling off the excess ones can be very lucrative, especially if you have a friend willing to pay. I've gotten 14 gold per turn from selling a luxury sometimes, if I have other sources of happiness I'll sometimes sell off my only copy of a lux for that price

 

[c4c6]

multiple Copies of a Luxury could cover more city, that would work pretty well, if at the same time they increase the amount of amenities required to make up for that, because otherwise Entertainment Districts become totally useless

'Increasing the amount of amenities required' would also make hard situations with rare luxury resources even harder.

I think such a change would have a tendency to lean towards "Never export, always import!"-gameplay, which wouldn't be that much fun in my opinion.

Me too.
Also being unable to use _every_ copy oneself, makes it easier to be nice and give a "useless" copy as gift ... (just a thought for people, who don't feel being obliged to deny cost-free advantages, because they don't care for diplomacy)

So I propose to give +1 Amenity for the 2nd copy of luxury resources and additionally reduce the effect of the 1st copy of luxury resources to (normally) +3 Amenities (1 per city).
[rules for the human. AI rules unchanged]

 

[Jarms48]

I'd like some kind of degrading effect, say:
- 1st copy: +1 amenity for 4 cities
- 2nd copy: +1 amenity for 3 cities
- 3rd copy: +1 amenity for 2 cities
- 4th copy: +1 amenity for 1 city
- 5th copy: nothing, similar to now with multiple copies

I'd say that'd reinforce the idea of diminishing returns, it would also help balance multiplayer spawns where one play can have 3 different luxuries, whilst another has 3 of the same luxury.

 

[Lynnes]

I stick to the original suggestion of +2 Amenities for each additional copy.
That way they would have a significant benefit, but still wouldn't reduce the value of trading for other resources, which would grant +4.

But whatever the devs are going to do, the most important thing is:

Please make this aspect of the game easily moddable, so we are able to modify it to our heart's content.

 

[c4c6]

I'd like some kind of degrading effect, say:
- 1st copy: +1 amenity for 4 cities
- 2nd copy: +1 amenity for 3 cities
- 3rd copy: +1 amenity for 2 cities
- 4th copy: +1 amenity for 1 city

In the beginning right now there are 24 Luxury Resources. This means from that you have 96 Amenities for the whole empire (regardless tall or wide), if you manage to control all Luxury Resource types on the map.

If you add 1st copy - 4th copy as described, you have 240 Amenities for the whole empire. You can have the same effect with 60 instead of 24 Luxury Resources at the start ...
Balance? Nobody ever needs trying to export Luxury Resources, because NOBODY EVER will import them. What for? EVERYBODY has always more than he can use.
Entertainment Districts? Of course, if you are really bored and have as much Gold as Luxury Resources, why not?

Any suggestions how to implement that for the AI players? Any idea how to balance the proposal in case it can't be implemented for the AI players? (i.e. giving them fix bonuses for compensation, which lots of people like to call "cheating")

Don't get me wrong: we humans like to fiddle around with the rules of our toys (i.e. the human rules). But if the implementation of the AI-player rules is omitted, the AI gameplay is weakened even more, because they simply cannot use all the new goodies. If the implementation of the AI-player rules is done simple (don't implement every small detail, estimate the overall effect & give fix bonuses), accuse of cheating arises. Or are you just aiming for a multiplayer solution?? ("would also help balance multiplayer spawns")

Who shall do it? Honestly I think, 'the developers' have more important tasks to do.
So: "Please make this aspect of the game easily moddable, so we are able to modify it to our heart's content. "

Btw, your proposal (+2 Amenities for each additional copy) results in a lot too much Amenities too, for my taste.
Sid's Sushi cooperation comes to mind ... it was a great idea, but I was able to collect ridiculous amounts of 'fish&chips' leading to new founded arctic cities with pop 1 and foodsurplus for a dozen pop more!

 

[Lynnes]

If you add 1st copy - 4th copy as described, you have 240 Amenities for the whole empire. ...

@c4c6: I'm sorry but there is an error in your reasoning:

You wouldn't have all those amenities for your few cities, you could support that many cities with only +1 amenity each.
That's something completely different!
So when you have 8 cities, it wouldn't make any difference at all if you have 3, 20 or 4893 copies of a certain luxury, you'd still get only +1 amenity for each city, and therefore you still want to trade the excess for something else.

The possible max amount of amenities from luxury resources won't be changed at all, no matter how many extra-amenities for additional copies you add. Each city still gets only +1 per available luxury.

 

[c4c6]

You wouldn't have all those amenities for your few cities, you could support that many cities with only +1 amenity each.
That's something completely different!
So when you have 8 cities, it wouldn't make any difference at all if you have 3, 20 or 4893 copies of a certain luxury, you'd still get only +1 amenity for each city, and therefore you still want to trade the excess for something else.

The possible max amount of amenities from luxury resources won't be changed at all, no matter how many extra-amenities for additional copies you add. Each city still gets only +1 per available luxury.

If I have 4 copies of coffee and 10 cities, than I would have 1 Amenity for each city by harvesting 4 coffee plantations.

You would never need more than 10 cities (4+3+2+1) in order to use all Luxury Resource types.

(Usually I like to have 1 to 2 dozens cities.)

 

[Lynnes]

If I have 4 copies of coffee and 10 cities, than I would have 1 Amenity for each city by harvesting 4 coffee plantations.
You would never need more than 10 cities (4+3+2+1) in order to use all Luxury Resource types.

So what's your point?
Even with additional amenities for additional copies (no matter if the bonus is +1, +2 or +100) you can never have more than +1 amenity per luxury per city.
To raise that value, trading for other resources is still very much required and not rendered useless in any way.
Looks good to me.

 

[c4c6]

So what's your point? // To raise that value, trading for other resources is still very much required and not rendered useless in any way. // Looks good to me.

My point is, that if Luxury Resources are provided in inflationary amounts (250%), the need for Amenities can usually be satisfied by using own Luxury Resources.

Because of the "normal" yields the Luxury Resources tiles will most of the time be worked anyway. I suppose abundant Luxury Resources being available "for free" would make building Entertainment Districts pointless.
Also I do see not much need for trading resources: all normal developed civilizations would have more own Luxury Resources than they need. Strategic Resources have usually a higher reluctance to be traded anyway and limits (e.g. allow only 4 swordsmen per iron mine) don't exist. Bonus Resources aren't traded now, too (could be with a diversification of food = health, but isn't).

 

[Lynnes]

My point is, that if Luxury Resources are provided in inflationary amounts (250%), the need for Amenities can usually be satisfied by using own Luxury Resources.

No, because it would change nothing at all for the cities that currently get amenities from luxuries! They wouldn't get a single amenity more or less than they do now, so you still have to trade.
But.. whatever. I don't think we are talking about the same thing here. Let's just stop.

 

[c4c6]

Each city still gets only +1 per available luxury.

Correct.

But MORE cities get +1 per available luxury:
- 1st copy: +1 amenity for 4 cities -> city 1, city 2, city 3, city 4
- 2nd copy: +1 amenity for 3 cities -> city 5, city 6, city 7
- 3rd copy: +1 amenity for 2 cities -> city 8, city 9
- 4th copy: +1 amenity for 1 city -> city 10

The cities 5 - 10 consume the 2nd, 3rd & 4 th copy of that resource AND SO SAVE OTHER LUXURY RESOURCES. In effect all cities together have more amenities available than in the original version.

No, because it would change nothing at all for the cities that currently get amenities from luxuries!

?? I thought, it is the purpose to change the amount of available amenities. What shall be achieved with your (or Jarms48's) propagated modification?

[For 4 copies of a Luxury Resource your and Jarms48's modification have the same result.]