E-books becoming more accepted as a form

[Antilogic]

I really dislike e-books, I love the romance of a book and its pages, but the one positive from them is apparently it's increased the number of ACTUAL books being sold, so tit for tat.

As a percentage of the market, or just the absolute number has increased?

 

[Silurian]

Obviously you can't re-sell second hand eBooks, and you cannot borrow one like you could do with a paper version.

In the UK some libraries have started lending eBooks.

 

[wolfigor]

So, do you keep your old ebook readers to read the books you purchased on them? Or have you transferred them to a hard drive or some other long-term storage option? Did you rebuy the ones you were likely to read again on your Kindle? (I'm just curious as to how you handled the DRM, not looking to fight here.)

With Amazon (and similar services) you don't need to keep the old reader to access those books in future.

With Amazon the eBooks are stored "in the cloud" and you can access those eBooks from any supported Reader.
Amazon has eBook readers for different platforms, so you don't really need to keep the old device to read them (you can actually start reading a book on a Kindle and continue reading it on a Android or iPad).
Others are doing exactly the same: I use Amazon as example because they have the most sophisticated solution across a large number of platforms.

However I also keep a copy of those books locally stored on my PC (and they get into the periodic back-up).

The other problem with eBook, or better with their DRM, is that one day the company controlling the DRM may disappear (e.g. going bankrupt).
In this case nobody will support the system anymore and it will become impossible for you to access and to read what you legally paid for (*).

This is the same problem for all cloud-based system (e.g. Steam for Civ-V) and people seem to accept it gladly.

In the UK some libraries have started lending eBooks.

that's true.
I was referring to private people.
I was used to borrow books from friends and lend mine to them: with eBooks, afaik there is no scheme to do so easily and legally.

As a percentage of the market, or just the absolute number has increased?

http://kegill.soup.io/post/125542863/Are-There-Really-More-eBook-Sales-Than





and

 

[innonimatu]

Ideally we should have a common DRM framework that all content owners and distributors must use, so that you can legally read the book you bought on any device you like.
Unfortunately this is not happening anywhere, and the "locked silos" system initiated by Apple is now copied by all... with the consumers as the main losers in the process.

DRM should never, ever be tolerated!

People are not buying things this way, they are making a one-time payment for a limited service with conditions which may be changed at any time at the discretion of the supplier. But being fooled into thinking that they are buying an actual discrete item.

 

[Antilogic]

With Amazon (and similar services) you don't need to keep the old reader to access those books in future.

With Amazon the eBooks are stored "in the cloud" and you can access those eBooks from any supported Reader.
Amazon has eBook readers for different platforms, so you don't really need to keep the old device to read them (you can actually start reading a book on a Kindle and continue reading it on a Android or iPad).
Others are doing exactly the same: I use Amazon as example because they have the most sophisticated solution across a large number of platforms.

However I also keep a copy of those books locally stored on my PC (and they get into the periodic back-up).

It seems we are confused here, or maybe the question was misunderstood. Say hypothetically you bought a book through company A's proprietary ebook device, and then you switched over to company B's system. Company B also produces a Kindle-like device for reading Company B's ebooks. Do you retain your old reader for Company A?

I get the iPad has a Kindle app so that it can read both Apple's and Amazon's ebooks, but it might not be able to read them from another company. And the Kindle is Amazon-exclusive, right?

The other problem with eBook, or better with their DRM, is that one day the company controlling the DRM may disappear (e.g. going bankrupt).
In this case nobody will support the system anymore and it will become impossible for you to access and to read what you legally paid for (*).

This is the same problem for all cloud-based system (e.g. Steam for Civ-V) and people seem to accept it gladly.

Many of us don't accept it gladly, but are forced to because we aren't offered any other choice. And a few don't at all.

Spoiler :

http://kegill.soup.io/post/125542863/Are-There-Really-More-eBook-Sales-Than
and

Seems to contradict what was posted above.

DRM should never, ever be tolerated!

People are not buying things this way, they are making a one-time payment for a limited service with conditions which may be changed at any time at the discretion of the supplier. But being fooled into thinking that they are buying an actual discrete item.

Agreed. I want to buy a full copy that I may use at my discretion. That's how we used to do it, and that's how I want to conduct business.

 

[puglover]

For E-Books to take over from books as the means of distributing writing in modern life, there needs to be two guarantees:
1) The technology would be affordable enough for the masses. No use in predicting E-Books will supplant books if a lower-class man on the street can pick any book off the shelf of a library or used bookstore, but can't afford an "e-reader"
2) E-Books would have to be backward compatible. No use in buying my entire library in E-Books if I'm going to have to buy them all over again in a year when a "new update" or upgrade rolls around.

 

[Antilogic]

2) E-Books would have to be backward compatible. No use in buying my entire library in E-Books if I'm going to have to buy them all over again in a year when a "new update" or upgrade rolls around.

Not only backwards-compatible, but cross-compatible. Any ebook reader can read any ebook.

 

[puglover]

Not only backwards-compatible, but cross-compatible. Any ebook reader can read any ebook.

Is that the state of things currently? I'm unfamiliar with the medium, myself.

 

[Antilogic]

Is that the state of things currently? I'm unfamiliar with the medium, myself.

I think backwards-compatibility is accurate to describe the state of ebooks right now, but cross-compatibility isn't. At least if I understand the others posters correctly.

 

[puglover]

I think backwards-compatibility is accurate to describe the state of ebooks right now, but cross-compatibility isn't. At least if I understand the others posters correctly.

Sure, but I think backwards-compatibility is not applicable at this point because the technology has scarcely been around long enough to move forward significantly. But certainly both backward and cross-compatibility will be needed for the medium to thrive.

 

[wolfigor]

It seems we are confused here, or maybe the question was misunderstood.

I probably misunderstood the question.
Indeed such a question has multiple answers depending on the context.

The main "rule" here is that there is no cross compatibility between DRM formats, and all companies try to lock you in a closed proprietary system (like Apple does egregiously).


There are different "actors" to consider:
- The device itself (e.g. Kindle or IPad)
- The reader, the software that allows you to read eBooks (e.g. Kindle Reader, or FBReader, or iPad eBook reader, etc.)
- The eBook store (now getting decoupled from the reader software)
- The DRM system
- Repository: often in the cloud, where all the eBooks you bought reside (and can then synch down to your device)

It's easy to confuse terms and roles (I write it more for people with less insight in these systems).

the Kindle is Amazon-exclusive, right?

Pretty much yes, the system allows only eBooks bought from the Kindle Store.
No additional reader can be installed, and only one eBook shop is allowed.
However on Kindle you can still read your own "documents": in this case it means both your own pdf/doc but also any DRM-free eBook.

Things change a little with Kindle Fire because it's based on Android, so it will be possible to install 3rd party readers (however only the Kindle Store will be allowed)
The same as it happens on iPad where you can install multiple readers, connecting to multiple repositories, but only one store is allowed.

Say hypothetically you bought a book through company A's proprietary ebook device, and then you switched over to company B's system. Company B also produces a Kindle-like device for reading Company B's ebooks. Do you retain your old reader for Company A?

If the device of company B is as closed as the Kindle, then yes.
If the new device is based on a more open system (.e.g Android based) then you just need install the reader software for company A.

Many of us don't accept it gladly, but are forced to because we aren't offered any other choice. And a few don't at all.

True.
I admit I hate these closed systems... I opted into Amazon-Kindle only because i really loved the device itself and the excellent experience of reading books on it (traveling a lot for work a kindle type of device helps a lot).
Thanks to my work I also have the opportunity to try out and use personally all those devices for free: that makes a huge difference!
(I do pay for content that I may buy on them).

Seems to contradict what was posted above.

I was trying to find quantitative data about the effect of eBooks on general books sales.
I did not find some definitive answer concentrated in one uber-article.
However I found many pieces of information.
My take is that sales of paper books, especially hard covers, are in very fast decline.
The decline started when the eBooks didn't even exist, and now is getting worst and worst.
Sales of paperbacks were declining too, independently from eBooks.
If we exclude hard covers from the equation it seems to me that sales of books (paper+ebooks) are essentially flat: no sharp decline nor sharp rise.
It seems that sales eBooks cover what is lost in sales of paper books with some positive margin: we could have hope that with time the total market will grow.

What is decreasing is the average revenue per sold book (revenue, not profit).

and naturally eBooks are killing traditional bookshops.

Agreed. I want to buy a full copy that I may use at my discretion. That's how we used to do it, and that's how I want to conduct business.

I fully agree here.
The world, however, is going in a different direction.
Unfortunately too few people (consumers) are aware of the problem and very few actually complain.
See the many threads on this forum about Steam and CivV to get an idea how many people do not consider this lock-in as an issue.

I think backwards-compatibility is accurate to describe the state of ebooks right now, but cross-compatibility isn't. At least if I understand the others posters correctly.

Almost all systems care for backward compatibility (at the end master versions of the eBooks reside on the companies servers).
What is strongly opposed is cross-compatibility.

 

[kochman]

I've been watching the rise of e-books with a lot of unease. On one hand I see how convenient it would be to have books in digitised form, cheap, easy to grab and carry around, easy to scan through and even search through. Furthermore I can see why e-books would be more environmentally friendly.

On the other hand books have appealed to me in a way e-books never can. There's just something about holding a book in your hand in a corner, knowing that for the moment reality consists of just you and your book. No distractions. No internet just a click away on your e-book reader. Just the feel of flipping the paper pages through your fingers as you scan the lines.

Perhaps I'm romanticising books here too much, but for all my modernity, solid paper books will always hold a place in my heart.

And yes, I think that e-books will conquer a large part of the market due to our insatiable hunger for convenience and speed. But I think that books will always have a certain appeal. And no, it doesn't spell the end of literature. In fact, it arguably makes it easier for budding writers to let themselves be known to the world due to a lessened need for publishers. On the flip side, with the predicted boom in published work online it'll become harder and harder to find what's really worth reading out there.

I agree with you completely... books are way more intimate. They also don't need batteries.

 

[Kyriakos]

Some old books are even works of art by themselves

I own a couple of relatively old (nothing before 1950, thus not that old) books, and i am very fond of them.

Collectors items also tend to look great. I have two out of three tomes of Borges' collected works.