Oops, that's right. That makes a whole lot of sense seeing what everyone has posted now. I was wondering why no-one was asking him whether he has coastal cities or not. Anyways, Great Library is an excellent choice, although seeing how he has marble and industrious, I'm not sure.
early engineer... what to do?
- Thread starter Ray Patterson
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Oops, that's right. That makes a whole lot of sense seeing what everyone has posted now. I was wondering why no-one was asking him whether he has coastal cities or not. Anyways, Great Library is an excellent choice, although seeing how he has marble and industrious, I'm not sure.
carl corey
Deity
I'd agree with everyone about saving it for the Great Library. In case you do have the time to build it yourself (meaning you're sure no one else on your continent has Literature when you build it) just save the GE for Machinery. It's the first in the GE list, so you can self-research Metal Casting (cheap forges) and then continue toward Bureaucracy while lightbulbing Machinery. Should get you early Macemen which is not to be missed. 
I got the same "problem" in a Gandhi game of mine: I had a GE build the GL (not industrious, no marble) but then I got two GEs when I was trying to get GSs... With nothing really interesting available to build I spent one on Machinery and one on partially researching Engineering since I going to war anyway. That meant early Maces, early Trebs and a quick win in that war.
I got the same "problem" in a Gandhi game of mine: I had a GE build the GL (not industrious, no marble) but then I got two GEs when I was trying to get GSs... With nothing really interesting available to build I spent one on Machinery and one on partially researching Engineering since I going to war anyway. That meant early Maces, early Trebs and a quick win in that war.
aelf
Ashen One
Come on! Marble and Industrious and you can't build the GL? 
zooropa86
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 5, 2006
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would you pay full price for something u can get at 60% off? me neither.
that's y there is no way u should use the GE for the GL. i say beeline to lit, if u want short term results bulb MC. otherwise, u could also wait for machinery or a later wonder.
that's y there is no way u should use the GE for the GL. i say beeline to lit, if u want short term results bulb MC. otherwise, u could also wait for machinery or a later wonder.
sylvanllewelyn
Perma-newb
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Around 66% off actually, but 60%'s about right because of hammer wastage.
What *I* would do? Save the engineer for engineering. Road movement is awesome, but the price... not so awesome.
What *I* would do? Save the engineer for engineering. Road movement is awesome, but the price... not so awesome.
popejubal
Emperor
I would consider building the Great Library with the Great Engineer, but I'd probably feel bad about it.
I hate the idea of spending an Engineer on a wonder that gets +200% to each "real" hammer invested (Industrious, Marble, Forge and Organized Religion) when I could spend the Engineer on a non-accelerated Wonder and get so much more efficient use of my hammer investment for the accelerated hammer.
The fact that spending the Engineer on the Great Library (especially if you're not the first to discover Literacy) might be (and often will be) the better strategic decision doesn't make me feel any less bad for the "waste".
I hate the idea of spending an Engineer on a wonder that gets +200% to each "real" hammer invested (Industrious, Marble, Forge and Organized Religion) when I could spend the Engineer on a non-accelerated Wonder and get so much more efficient use of my hammer investment for the accelerated hammer.
The fact that spending the Engineer on the Great Library (especially if you're not the first to discover Literacy) might be (and often will be) the better strategic decision doesn't make me feel any less bad for the "waste".
InvisibleStalke
Emperor
Me, I'd settle him in your best wonder making city. Then build parthenon AND temple of artemis AND the GL. With Marble and industrious and a settled GE, you should get them all. Meanwhile the GE will increase your science and production for the rest of the game.
If you weren't industrious or didn't have marble, then I'd answer differently. But you simply don't need any help getting these wonders. I wouldn't worry about burning the GE on a tech either - by the time you get the GL you will have so much research that you can easily catch up on tech.
If you weren't industrious or didn't have marble, then I'd answer differently. But you simply don't need any help getting these wonders. I wouldn't worry about burning the GE on a tech either - by the time you get the GL you will have so much research that you can easily catch up on tech.
A few points before an advice has any sense :
- you're running a SE, you said. So you're certainly running representation. This makes a settled great person, regardless of type, very useful.
- What victory condition are you gunning for? If it's cultural, you may build the parthenon in another city, for quick culture + the effect won't be wasted at all. If it's not, but you aim for a quick conquest or domination, the temple of artemis is great. (read sisiutil's current ALC
)
- lightbulbing MC when you don't have alphabet isn't a very good move. Of course, if you go this way, you can research alphabet the slow way and still get good value out of it. How many turns are you away from alpha?
So my conclusion :
1° if you're not running for cultural (there is no way I can tell from what you've said. If I missed something, sorry for this),
2° if you're able to build the wonders you want (because you are industrious with the right resource)
3° if you are a good deal away from alphabet (more than 10 turns)
settle your engineer in your wonder production city. You will get the wonders faster than without him + you'll have a good deal of science coming from him, and not only for MC but also for the rest of the techs, including those smaller techs you don't want to trade for.
- you're running a SE, you said. So you're certainly running representation. This makes a settled great person, regardless of type, very useful.
- What victory condition are you gunning for? If it's cultural, you may build the parthenon in another city, for quick culture + the effect won't be wasted at all. If it's not, but you aim for a quick conquest or domination, the temple of artemis is great. (read sisiutil's current ALC
)- lightbulbing MC when you don't have alphabet isn't a very good move. Of course, if you go this way, you can research alphabet the slow way and still get good value out of it. How many turns are you away from alpha?
So my conclusion :
1° if you're not running for cultural (there is no way I can tell from what you've said. If I missed something, sorry for this),
2° if you're able to build the wonders you want (because you are industrious with the right resource)
3° if you are a good deal away from alphabet (more than 10 turns)
settle your engineer in your wonder production city. You will get the wonders faster than without him + you'll have a good deal of science coming from him, and not only for MC but also for the rest of the techs, including those smaller techs you don't want to trade for.
In this case I would bulb metal casting. Cheap forges + marble + industrious is a very fast GL. If I wasn't industrious I would keep it to rush the GL. Other possibility is get mathematics, build and aquaduct and then the hanging gardens. Even more GE points and a good wonder.
darrelljs
Immortal
Settle.
Darrell
Darrell
IMO, there is important information missing, such as difficulty level and what year the game is at. If you're at 200 AD, it's much different than if you're at 1000BC. If you're early in the game, I would say go ahead and lightbulb Metal Casting. Why?
It gets you forges, which are useful for the 25% production. It also allows you to add to your GE GPP by running an engineer. This will give more GPP than teching Mathematics and building the Hanging Gardens without tying up valuable production. With representation, you will be getting 2H and 3S from your engineer, almost as good as a non-rep settled engineer.
If you're late in the game, say 200+ AD, and especially if anyone has alphabet already (and this assumes you REALLY want the GL), then I would save the GE for the GL. Yes, it's somewhat of a waste for you since you have +200% to production, but it insures that you won't lose the GL with 2 turns left. Personally, I would go for metal casting and risk losing the GL, because you could build a forge and enjoy a synergy with additional production towards the GL.
Ultimately, the priorities you set will determine what you want to use the GL for. In any case, due to the computer's low priority on building the parthenon, I would definately set a 2nd city to produce it. This avoids GPP contamination and gets the benifit of +50% GPP in your main GE city.
My opinion on settling the GE is simply, don't. Even with representation, MC costs around 600S (depends on difficulty). Your GE w/ Rep produces 6S per turn, so that's 100 turns worth of S from him. But, that's 100 turns worth of S now, rather than over the next 100 turns. Keeping in mind that you can build a forge with MC and run an engineer, you're basically losing 1h and 3s per turn in exchange for the ability to add +25% production to all your cities as well as possibly improving happyness. Simply running one additional person in your capital due to the happyness increase can make up for that loss of 1H/3S.
It gets you forges, which are useful for the 25% production. It also allows you to add to your GE GPP by running an engineer. This will give more GPP than teching Mathematics and building the Hanging Gardens without tying up valuable production. With representation, you will be getting 2H and 3S from your engineer, almost as good as a non-rep settled engineer.
If you're late in the game, say 200+ AD, and especially if anyone has alphabet already (and this assumes you REALLY want the GL), then I would save the GE for the GL. Yes, it's somewhat of a waste for you since you have +200% to production, but it insures that you won't lose the GL with 2 turns left. Personally, I would go for metal casting and risk losing the GL, because you could build a forge and enjoy a synergy with additional production towards the GL.
Ultimately, the priorities you set will determine what you want to use the GL for. In any case, due to the computer's low priority on building the parthenon, I would definately set a 2nd city to produce it. This avoids GPP contamination and gets the benifit of +50% GPP in your main GE city.
My opinion on settling the GE is simply, don't. Even with representation, MC costs around 600S (depends on difficulty). Your GE w/ Rep produces 6S per turn, so that's 100 turns worth of S from him. But, that's 100 turns worth of S now, rather than over the next 100 turns. Keeping in mind that you can build a forge with MC and run an engineer, you're basically losing 1h and 3s per turn in exchange for the ability to add +25% production to all your cities as well as possibly improving happyness. Simply running one additional person in your capital due to the happyness increase can make up for that loss of 1H/3S.
Actually, it's in his original post:
I still say the Parthenon is best--it'll give him his next GE faster, and he can get more GSs from the GL once he builds it (he's industrious and has marble), but if cabert recommends settling, that might be worth a try.
druidravi
King
temple of Artemis would be nice. It's the wonder which produces most gpp next to great library. Great library has 8gpp while TOA has 5gpp. Mix them all in a single city with national epic and pacifism and have fun.
Do not please use him for light bulbing. Engineer is the most valuable gp and lightbulbing for 1000
is a waste unless you are china and want machinery for cho-ku s. Joining him is a good option as well especially this early in game and with representation .
Do not please use him for light bulbing. Engineer is the most valuable gp and lightbulbing for 1000
is a waste unless you are china and want machinery for cho-ku s. Joining him is a good option as well especially this early in game and with representation .InvisibleStalke
Emperor
If you are running representation already, metal casting won't take long to research at all. And how are you losing 1H/3S by lightbuilding? Aren't you losing 3H/6S?
The main reason I have for settling the engineer is that it gives you the extra hammers and research in your capital forever. Hammers and research that you don't have to feed and doesn't require happiness or health.
If you can get really high production in one city with an industrious civ, you can claim 3/4 of the wonders easily. And get their GPP benefits, again without food which increases future research and production. And because your production is so high you don't spend much time building them, which means more turns you can run specialists or build troops.
It isn't just +6 science either:
- +6 science immediately, + 7.5 with library, + 10.5 with academy etc for universities, laboratories, observatories...
- +3 hammers immediately, +4.5 for wonders, + 5.25 with org religion, etc for forges, factories, wonder resource bonus, bureaucracy etc...
In this case I think the long term benefits outweigh the short term ones of rushing metal casting. Possibly there might be exciting trade opportunities that might make metal casting a winner - but in itself I don't think its valuable enough.
I stated 1H 3S because you can run an engineer off of the forge. Personally I think Settling is almost always the worst option for a great person. It gives the best long term yield, but Civ4 (at least to me) is about the now factor. If I'm not strong now, technically advanced now, etc, then I won't be able to keep pace with the AI or in MP games.
gettingfat
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2003
- Messages
- 1,417
Definitely saving it for Machinery. Note that because you have the Great Wall and Pyramid, it means that your opponents won't get GE for quite a while unless they rush-research MC and use engineer specialist, which is not very likely. So unless you get into a deep war it's hard to imagine an industrious leader with marble can't beat others to get GL.
With an industrious leader MC is a high priority tech to get the cheap forges. Machinery allows you to build windmills and watermills, which further strengthen your infrastructure. It opens up two units, macemen (with CS, which you'll research anyway), and crossbowmen (important if you don't have metals). It sets up medieval wars if you wish.
Panthenon costs 400 hammers. With 150% bonus it's equivalent to 160 hammers. Why would you trade 700 beakers (cost of machinery) for 160 hammers?
With an industrious leader MC is a high priority tech to get the cheap forges. Machinery allows you to build windmills and watermills, which further strengthen your infrastructure. It opens up two units, macemen (with CS, which you'll research anyway), and crossbowmen (important if you don't have metals). It sets up medieval wars if you wish.
Panthenon costs 400 hammers. With 150% bonus it's equivalent to 160 hammers. Why would you trade 700 beakers (cost of machinery) for 160 hammers?
aelf
Ashen One
But with Parthenon you might be able to get another GE in time to lightbulb Machinery. And you would benefit from it until Chemistry. It's one of those wonders that are relatively expensive and the AI loves. And it comes at a time when you might be better off building other things like axes.
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