Early Wonders...Discussion

[robboo]

I dont know what official this falls under but I think we need to start thinking about any of the early wonders we might want to go for.

Some of the obvious ones are Stonehedge, Pyramids, oracle however with the right starting techs and marble or stone these may be fruitless. Stonehedge is not needed due to our Creative trait so in my mind that is out. The oracle is a short term gain...one tech. Sure you can slignshot but if you lose the Oracle race you lose a great deal of production. The pyramids are stong but without stone is it even worth an attempt.

One interesting thing to do is the Collossus that will give +1 on all water tiles. We have Copper so that will aid its building. We are only 1 tech and 1 building from being able to start on it. The draw backs is that we would sacrifcing valuable early production for all game water commerce on what appears to be a very "watery" map. Then when you consider running Beuacracy Aloha becomes our main commerce and science city. And if its possible cuple the collossus with The great lighthouse and you have a Great merchant farm in a commerce/science city.

This may hinder us in getting an early religion but I doubt that anyone will hog religion and stop us from getting a later one.

My proposal would be to get AH and then work on metal casting.( maybe a tech inbetween) While this is going on Aloha will continue to provide limited settlers and workers while we grow population in order to work as many hammer producing tiles as possible. Once Metal casting is founded we build a forge and start on the Collossus. At that point city 2 will have to take over as the main production center which it is set up to be any way.

Discuss and tell me where I am mistaken or what I have missed....I know we are forgetting Iron working...but do you expect an attack this early on since we havent even met another civ yet.

 

[BCLG100]

3 hills to me isnt enough for a production city, thats all city 2 will have.

Colossus wont really take that long if we do decide to build it, with copper hooked up and 3/4 hills then it should in theory be pretty quick. Though it would need to be something considered nearer the time. It does outdate at astronomy though.

I agree about the not bothering with any wonder we dont have a resource for.

 

[Zorn]

If I understood it right, the map is more or less handmade, or at least tuned.
So I think that if we have neither marble nor stone near, the other teams probably won`t have either.

 

[BCLG100]

If I understood it right, the map is more or less handmade, or at least tuned.
So I think that if we have neither marble nor stone near, the other teams probably won`t have either.

That could be the case or one civ might have a monopoly on stone/marble like we seem to have a lot of dyes. Or we may have other benefeits to our civ.

 

[GeorgeOP]

Maybe in the same way we were set up with Copper for the Collosus. I say we go for building it.

 

[Black_Hole]

We also need to remember Team Loco(Ghandi) and Epsilon Team(Qin Shi Huang) are industrious, giving them +50% wonder production...

Currently the only two I would consider are the Pyramids and Collosus...
Stonehenge has little use since we are cultural, while the oracle will be too hard to get with not too much advantage(I doubt a team will try a Civil Service slingshot with other human teams, but you never know...)
Then we have no stone for the pyramids, it would also be very hard...
The collosus would be helpful since we are finacial and we have copper, so I think we should definetly go for it

 

[robboo]

OK ...so whats the best course..ignore iron working and go for metal casting..as I outlined in my first post. Its going to take some planning long term to pull this off.

I think we start a barracks in city 2 to supply some trained troops..then it should take over building the settlers and workers while Aloha builds on the Collosus.

One note..Episilon is also Finacial...they could also look at it BUT may get sucked into a Pyramid bit.

Honestly...who here has ever thought of building the collosus in a multiplayer game.Also remember it effects ALL water tiles...clams/fish and crabs look really good now.

 

[BCLG100]

If we are going for it, i think we should pick up animal husbandry first. Working the pigs will allow us to build/grow quicker

 

[robboo]

I agree. AH is necessary. We also need pottery for metal casting.

Most wont go metal castign before iron so thats an advantage. In addition it just about ensures we will have to go for a later religion.

 

[robboo]

I snagged this from the ITDG forum...same map maker same map theory should hold true. This leads me to believe that resources will NOT be balanced and we should use our copper.( and be prepared to be missing something else stone or marble perhaps)

Hi. I'm the source they asked to produce the maps. I supplied maps that complied with everything requested. I'm sorry this has spilled out in to the open, but that was not my doing.

I disagree with Dave and Rik, apparently, about the desirability of symmetrical resources. If all civs were meant to have all resources all the time, then the resources themselves should be abstracted out of the game and all civs always able to build and do everything. One concept of fairness demands symmetry, but another allows for variance. I'm a proponent of the latter. Every team had the same shot at resources as every other, with differences controlled by the dice, and on top of that I ensured that nobody got stuck with too poor of a hand. Is this not better than everybody knowing up front that they don't have to work for their resources?

I feel now this should be thrown open for discussion. What do the teams want? Do you guys all want perfectly "fair" resources, with every team having easy access to Copper, Iron, Horses, Coal, etc? Since that was NOT among the requests made of me as the mapmaker, I did not do that. What I did do is rely on a base of randomization and then ensure that none of the results were out of bounds. I made sure no teams got raked over the coals, but Dave and Rik seem to view this as "slightly unbalanced" and therefore unacceptable.

I figured that if you all wanted identical resources, you'd have asked for that. (You had the opportunity to ask for anything you like, and as far as I can tell, this didn't even come up.)

.................SNIP............

- Sirian

 

[Robi D]

I've been more of an observer lately but i figure this is a good time to say something. I find it competely wierd that we haven't met anyone so far. We still need to explore more to the south but i'm starting to get the feeling we might be alone on this continent. If that is the case then there is nothing stopping us going for a couple of wonders as sea invasion arn't a big threat early on. We should explore to the south asap to confirm if we are alone, because it makes a big difference to our best strategy. Alone or not i would go for the collosus and we should get some of the cheap tech before the long slog towards metal casting.

 

[BCLG100]

Part of the reason is that we did lose our scout fairly early on.

there seems to be many areas we havnt explored.

 

[robboo]

mayeb we need to build another warrior and send him south.

Get AH then metal casting is my suggestion also. You need something for the worker to do durign teh long drag up to metal casting

 

[Black_Hole]

I think we should get writing after Animal Husbandry then metal casting

 

[Love]

go for collosus

and, why dont poll it?