1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Earth Enlarged Europe

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Pre-made Maps' started by Lone Wolf, Aug 28, 2009.

  1. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    9,899
    Since the previous thread was moved, I present the Earth map from RFC with enlarged Europe here. It's 18 civs, with Greece, Rome and USA replaced by Byzantium, Khmer and Native Americans. The marshes are replaced by jungles, tundra or grassland, as suitable. Chinese capital moved to Luoyang, to give more chance to Mongolia.

    Aggressive AI, Choose Religions and No Tech Brokering is on by default.

    Link
     
  2. none

    none si vis pacem para bellum

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    166
    Location:
    Nowhere
    I get the USA civ being replaced by the Native Americans but Rome replaced by Khmer? No offense but that's a bit weird. Isn't the point of playing an earth map to implement some historical accuracy?
     
  3. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    9,899
    Both Khmer and Rome are historically accurate civs. (Although Sury looks like an alien, he really isn't!) Of course, by "replaced" I mean that I have their slots replaced, not that I had moved the Khmer to Italy...

    And that's also done for balance reasons - Europe is already quite overcrowded, and Khmer act like a force that balances China. With Byzantium replacing Greece, the early Europe has more of an "Early Middle Ages" feel.

    Here's what the typical early Europe looks like on the map:

    Spoiler :
     

    Attached Files:

  4. none

    none si vis pacem para bellum

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    166
    Location:
    Nowhere
    I guess that point was confusing, thanks for clearing that up.

    I like the idea of changing game balance in Asia (especially regarding China) but since resources are plentiful in Europe and without Rome there is less competition it can be even easier to dominate this part of the world or am I mistaken?

    I don't want to sound too critical, IMO it's a nice move to remove Rome as Praetorians can really be game breaking (especially in human hands).;)
     
  5. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    9,899
    If you're European, an early rush pwns everything with or without Rome.

    If you're not European, European nations are more strong, because they have more land to develop.
     
  6. none

    none si vis pacem para bellum

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    166
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Quite true. Early rushes can really be devastating. Since you've replaced Greece with Byzantium this has to make for a rather interesting game.
     
  7. Lachlan

    Lachlan Great Builder of Civs !

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,072
    Location:
    European Union
    What about replacing all native american civs by ancient world ones...

    Should be space for colonization from 1500's era
     
  8. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    9,899
    If you want New World open for colonization, you can delete the New Worlders in the Wordbuilder. No cheating involved when you already know the map.
     
  9. njd.aitken

    njd.aitken Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Canada
    Excellent map, got a great game going with my brother. Many thanks.
     
  10. Atoll

    Atoll Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    The Third Rome
    My first post.

    Thank you, Lone Wolf! Your map is what I have long waited for!
    But some things have surprised me and I decided to change it.

    I am sorry, but I...
    1) delete GAMEOPTION_AGGRESSIVE_AI and GAMEOPTION_NO_TECH_BROKERING and GAMEOPTION_PICK_RELIGION. But you can choose this options at start, if you want.
    2) delete Byzantines and restore Greeks (Pericles).
    3) delete Natives and restore USA (Roosevelt). American natives never been more than barbarians (politically incorrect, but true). And, IMHO, USA - great nation and delete it was great mistake.
    4) delete Mali and restore Romans (Caesar). I love Mali, but on Worldmap in my games they almost unplayable: they even not build workers or settlers!
    5) Change leaders: Mongols (Chengis - great mongolian leader, not Kublay - in fact ruler of China), Russia (Peter - first russian emperor, not Stalin - wery controversial and doubtful leader), and Persia (Cyrus - hero and great conqueror, not Darius - great loser).

    My variant of Lone Wolf map:
    Link

    P.S. Lone Wolf, you are Russian like me? Если тебе не нравится то, что я тут понаписал: только скажи - я уйду и даже подотру за собой.
     
  11. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    9,899
    Most credit should go to Rhye - I've just converted the map from his mod to original BTS.

    It's Darius the I, not the III.

    Thematically, Genghis does fit more, but Kublai is a better AI to balance China.

    It's mostly because Bull better defends against Monty the Mad then the American leaders. I think that the gameplay can be made more intriguing by making the New World empty anyway. We need some good ol' colonization.

    Почему же? Я ничего не имею против отзывов. :)

    I have nothing against comments.
     
  12. youknowwhatitis

    youknowwhatitis Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Messages:
    132
    Location:
    H-Town
    If you do not like what I have here has been written: just say - I'll go and even podotru for a
    what is podotru?
     
  13. Atoll

    Atoll Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    The Third Rome
    Just Russian word. This means: II'll go away and even promise to erase my post. :lol:
     
  14. Trajan7

    Trajan7 Imperator

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    85
    Location:
    The Palatine Hill, Rome
    But why get rid of ROME, one of the Largest empires, and possibly one of the greatest, in all of history?
     
  15. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    9,899
    Well, you do have the Byzantines, who have a point of partially representing both Rome and Greece. I just wanted Europe to have a more medieval flavor.
     
  16. CityDontSleep

    CityDontSleep Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2011
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    California
    Really like this map, have played through a multiple times and its one of the top ones out there! Thanks for the make.

    I have a favor to ask of you or anyone willing to help. I am a civ vet (dating back to civ 2, although I had no idea what I was doing 98 percent of the time back then). Recently in the past year, I have gotten quite good and excel with Rome and a few others, although I'm pretty comfortable with a number of strategies with different civs (yay procrastination and google). But, I am also a huge fan of the Earth maps (not that I don't enjoy a traditional game - I just like the ability to re-write history on the Earth maps). Anyway could someone PLEASE make this map - no changes in any of the tiles or anything- but with the following civilizations in their historically accurate starting places?
    Lone Wolfs expanded Europe (credit Lone Wold and Rhye)
    CIV IV BTS
    Marathon Time Setting, Raging Barbarians, Aggressive AI, No Tech Brokering, Choose Religion
    Civs should look like:
    New World (4) [geographic area - civ]
    South America - Inca
    Central America - Maya, Aztec
    North America - Native America
    Old World (14) [geographic area - civ]
    Asia (4) - Khmer, China, Korea, India (Ghandi)
    Middle East (3) - Arabia, Ottoman (Mehmed), Persia (Cyrus)
    Africa (2) - Egypt (hatty), Zulu
    Europe (5) - Spain, France (louis), Vikings, Germany (bismark), Russia (catherine)

    From original 18 civ earth map - that removes(7): USA, England, Rome, Greece, Mali, Mongol, Japan and adds (7):Native America, Maya, Viking, Ottoman, Zulu, Khmer, Korea.
    That gives 18 civs which is all I can run on my mac (*sigh of disappointment - would have liked 2-4 more old world slots for balancing reasons). I would make this myself but as far as the world builder, I'm useless. I don't even know if I can change maps with my mac and if you can get into the map script, I have no idea how to do that. So thank you all so, so much. I'm assuming it wouldn't take to much time and it would mean a lot to me to see a map like this.


    And if youre curions, the reasons my civ choice are as follows in the spoiler. If you're not just stop reading now or skip ahead.
    Spoiler :

    Americas: I really liked lone wolf's use of sitting bull to counter monty. While USA is much stronger, all 3 U.S. leaders lag in the early game without a human player, whereas the Aztecs excel, which leaves N. America well out of balance. Now N. America usally hasn't been completely overrun by the time of European contact. Also removing mountains on Isthmus of Panama (linking N and S America) allowed for more development in new world and was overall a great decision. But i think the introduction of Pacal/Maya would just add more interesting gameplay to that part of the world - which can tend to get extremely redundant.
    Asia - Again, adding Khmer was brilliant. China ALWAYS became a superpower in reg 18 earth and placing them in S.E. Asia revolutionized the game. I would change the mongol leader back to ghengis if he were to stay, but i think with the removal of japan(strong leader, but isolated on that island on earth map means they never really contend or do anything interesting in my games - and usually just stay pretty pissed at the human player. So its fairly worthless for the game dynamic haha), it would be best to place korea in their accurate starting place to counter chinese expansion to the South, as well as mediate the loss of Mongolia and Japan (excellent fat cross and good land to Chinese south, steppe west, and islands to east. Korea is protective and financial, and could settle a nice, techy empire in asia (Asian version of what European England is maybe). India is traditionally weak in my games next to Persia, but there still needs to be a civ there to mediate khmer and Persian expansion so I want to leave them. Ghandi is a better leader i think though. Chance for Asian religion with Khmer and India as well.
    Middle East - remains very similar. Cyrus is usually a super power. Arabia techs well and provides religion to that region usually. Introduction of Ottomans provides a very strong civ to hopefully protect the middle east from aggressive and usually religiously different Europe or from powerful Cyrus. Picked Mehmed because he is a better empire builder and warmonger.
    Europe - Always liked the dynamic of Europe. Fast teching/smaller civs with potential to become world powers with some warfare. Enlarged Europe has given more flexibility to combat and strategy which is sweet if you like playing as a European civ. Removal of Greece was a good call i think because they usually become someones vassal or just suck (AI doesnt REX well with Alexander in that spot) removal of Rome (despite them being my favorite civ) - makes game really interesting, militarily, for the rest of Europe - fighting for Italy - spain, france, germany, or ottomans - even took it as England once). As far as Russia goes, Stalin as a leader was ok in some games, but with AI hes not very good at expansion and gets absorbed by Germany more often than not (defeats the point of all this balancing im trying to do. Izzy usually gets a religion early and is quite the global instigator (gotta love it - esp when Arabia gets islam). Now this last part might get me hate mail or something, but I think england has to be removed for the Vikings. No doubt Eng is one of the strongest civs in the game, but starting a civ on an island really hinders their interaction with the rest of the civs on the world map. Like I saw persia sail ships up there once and nothing happened. They're just a little too passive for my taste. Therefore, I think the vikings will be better suited (Germany will have to work harder to dominate Europe without as much of Scandinavia, hopefully both civs force Russian expansion eastward, and i think the Vikings and French will do better at settling G.B. than England does at settling Scandinavia), giving the ability for lots of European powers at the same time.
    Africa - My ambitions in the Americas left me a little shorthanded in Africa, but I think Egypt as Hatty and the Zulu (arguably two of the stronger expansive civs in the game) can handle the burden. Flip of a coin Egypt is either conquered by Persia or barbs or whoever, or they expand and become a large, world power. Shaka's ub and expansive trait give him great synergy to create a nice, large, african empire. The two should balance each other nicely. Better balance than the Mali ever did, anyway.


    So lots of civ changes, but only to make the game more balanced and interesting for anyone who is bored of the regular developments in the earth map. I will say Lone Wolf/Rhye's map did a great job of creating more interesting empire developments in Europe while hindering some of the traditional monsters that used to dominate 18 civ earth maps (china, persia, russia). My goal with the civ changes is to further balance this new map. Hope you enjoyed the thoughts and the read. Thanks again for the help. Also, if you have information for me on changing map scripts, let me know (but don't forget by no definition am I even close to tech savvy so be clear haha).
     
  17. CityDontSleep

    CityDontSleep Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2011
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    California
    Yeah wow thats great! Even with my tech-backwardness i think i can figure it out. I appreciate the quick response too, I'll go ahead and give it a shot next time I've got a little extra time on my hands (probably shouldn't procrastinate too much more on this research paper haha). Let me know if/when you give it a shot incase I don't ever quite get it. I will do the same and post it when I complete it as well. Thanks again!
     
  18. CityDontSleep

    CityDontSleep Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2011
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    California
    Looking at it now I'd throw down serious money on me messing it up a few times, but its probably going to be good for me to learn this nonsense anyway.

    Edit:
    Finished with the map, wasn't too hard actually. i was able to just use youtube and screnshots of rhyes map so i didn't have to go in an and out of the game to check my starting locations.

    Turns out it made for a really interesting game. I tried playing as the zulu and impi rushed africa and asia. popped the great wall early (for raging barbs). had control of egypt, persia, india, khmer, and korea well before AD years (zulu UU/UB ftw). I would say most of my balancing didn't work out too well though seeing as the mayans were eliminated before i had reached china. also france just took control of GB, and Germany did not expand beyond italy due to rexing by catherine (who founded the first religion of the game - wtf). vikings were horribly boring, basically just declared war on whoever catherine was fighting. france and germany were really interesting because the addition of the british isles made the french much more powerful. All in all, interesting game, but I'll definitely adjust for my next play through - probably going to start playing on immortal with select civs too.

    Anyway thanks again for the help. I'm looking forward to doing some more map editing soon. Can't post the map for some reason but if you want to do this or something similar, follow the instructions above. I can also provide x,y coordinates for some of the new civs.
     

Share This Page