effect of pyramid?

[Hive Watch]

I believe the wonders is not just the building itself, but it represent some abilities of the builders of the wonder in real life

TGD represent the productivity of modern China ( just look around and see how many things are made in china)

moai statue represent the ability of the island natives to construct even when surrounded by waters

etc etc

but the pyramid's ability to have democracy or military dictatorship in ancient age doesn't represent Egypt at all, Im not saying this ability shouldn't be in the game, but this ability definitely belong to a Greek wonder like the Oracle

 

[mechaerik]

Hive Watch, that seems a little off... We may never know why Firaxis made some of these choices.

@TMIT: I like your old avatar better, but that's just me.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

The CIV3 version made a lot more sense (free granaries).
Simply becouse it perfectly depicted the base concept of egiptian society.
The entire society was geared toward building the piramids. And in order for the work force to be fed huge stores of food had to be gathered, transported, stored and distributed througout the huge empire.
You have to remember that the piramids were built by expert craftsman and not slaves. And these required a good and reliable supply of food.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Hive Watch, that seems a little off... We may never know why Firaxis made some of these choices.

@TMIT: I like your old avatar better, but that's just me.

I changed my avatar to represent my team for SGOTM 9!

The red eyes weren't as cool as ceiling cat anyway.

Pyramids are a crutch but an understandable one...I had the gwall as a mini-crutch for a while.

 

[Hive Watch]

how am I a lil off?

 

[Matthew5117]

@TMIT: I like your old avatar better, but that's just me.

I changed my avatar to represent my team for SGOTM 9!

The red eyes weren't as cool as ceiling cat anyway.

Yeah, when you changed your avatar, I'm like, who's that??? I often identify people here with their avatars. A while back, AlanH changed his avatar, whoa, that was a big change. Another time Mad changed his avatar, and I thought he didn't come back.

You must be a big fan of LOLCat though, TMIT.

Btw, does anyone know how to work the multi quote function, it doesn't seem to work for me anymore.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Descendants of the Pharaohs have created every government type known to man... so I guess the 'Mids reflects this.

Are your maladjusted antisocial tendencies the product of your berserk pituitary gland?

No. They are the product of a maladjusted, antisocial, sociopathic ruling class.

 

[nadeem]

if it had any other effect i would not build it for so many hammers... and maybe the Greeks captured it and were able to switch to democracy

 

[Hive Watch]

I implied in one of my posts to balance the hammer with the effect

And saying Pharoe's descendants created all the gov't type seems stretching it too far, they were simply discovering liberalism or fascism. And the Greeks had democracy long before they captured the Mids

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

And saying Pharoe's descendants created all the gov't type seems stretching it too far

Descendants of Pharaohs (not Pharoes) of the 15-16 century BC. I don't think it's a stretch. But then, I also don't trust most history books by more than half what they say. None of the history buffs on this site like me, so this is nothing new .

There has to be a reason that they chose the 'Mids as the "all government civic" wonder. Since Civ4 is the first civ game to have civics, it's not like this is a nod to the previous versions of civ. So what, then?

 

[Rusty Edge]

why does a giant tomb give you all gov't types? if it does? why does egypt, who build it irl use hereditary rule? I think this effect belong to a greek wonder.

Certainly you could make a case for a Grecco-Roman Wonder, since they used many government types between them.


Going back to CIV I , the opening used to conclude with the question "Can you build a civilization that will stand the test of time?" By that standard The Pyramids are arguably the greatest Wonder of all, and as such were assigned the greatest benefit ( being able to use all government types before you research the techs ) in CIV I.
added -Blitzkrieg 1980, CIV I had an option of government types.. despotism, monarchy, federation, constitutional monarchy, democracy and communism ....or something of the sort... possibly fascism ?

The great benefit to a great endeavor is what you become in the process. In the case of The Pyramids, it was the development of organizational skills( Bureaucracy? ). All of the logistical prowess required the development of a civil service- an advanced government,( but not a deviation from the monarchy). Remember, each Pyramid was built in it's resident's lifetime, not over time, like The Great Wall.

The Egyptians developed a system of collecting grain as taxes, storing, transporting, storing again, and finally distributing it to the workers building The Pyramids. So graineries throughout the land were a legitamate byproduct.

They used various types of labor, including conscription. They gave the kingdom/people a sense of purpose and identity- So the Nationhood civic isn't out of the question.


They trained a lot of masons and stone cutters, and created quarries. It's not inconcievable that they built walls around their cities & villages when they returned home.

If the ancient Egyptians believed that the pyramid was a machine designed to guide the pharoh's soul to the constellation Orion, where he would join his ancestors as a god, and then grant immortality to his people in gratitude for building his pyramid and defending his kingdom out of gratitude - then I could see it having the happiness effects of a temple in every city.

There are lots of ways to express The Pyramids in civ terms,
since I started as a CIV I player, the retro approach is legitimate to me.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Blitzkrieg 1980, CIV I had an option of government types.. despotism, monarchy, federation, constitutional monarchy, democracy and communism ....or something of the sort... possibly fascism ?

My bad. I guess I was too young to actually utilize the game properly . My buddy and I used to settle, build units, settle, build units, lose to the AI

 

[Hive Watch]

Blitzkrieg 1980, did you say the descendants of pharohs in 16 century created all gov't types? I never heard of this, could you link something up?

Rusty Edge, I agreed with most of your ideas, but how is the Mids the greatest wonder by the standard of a civ that stand the test of time? Ancient Egypt collapsed pretty early

 

[mechaerik]

I'm assuming that its because the Pyramids stand till today, as mighty as the day they were made. Also, Ancient Egypt was around for quite a while (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Egypt) 3 millenia.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Blitzkrieg 1980, did you say the descendants of pharohs in 16 century created all gov't types? I never heard of this, could you link something up?

Rusty Edge, I agreed with most of your ideas, but how is the Mids the greatest wonder by the standard of a civ that stand the test of time? Ancient Egypt collapsed pretty early

No online links. Books. Do a search for Ahmenenhet Abraham Thutmose and Moses. Do the same search on google video (NOT YouTube)

 

[sydhe]

An alternative would be for the Pyramids to give Melee 1 to all edged and pointy weapons (Melee 2 if the civilization is aggressive). You put the weapons in the Pyramid, they get sharpened...

 

[Rusty Edge]

Rusty Edge, I agreed with most of your ideas, but how is the Mids the greatest wonder by the standard of a civ that stand the test of time? Ancient Egypt collapsed pretty early

I meant that the wonder itself withstood the test of time. Both in terms of fame and phyicallity.

It survived without being hidden and burried. The pyramids amazed people when they were built, and have continued to do so ever since as a tourist attraction.The Greeks, Romans, British , Napoleon and AH have all sought to raise their standard in the presence of The Pyramids as a symbol of perpetuity. If you could poll the planet ( not just Civ Fanatics ) , they would be on the majority of lists of World Wonders.

An alternative would be for the Pyramids to give Melee 1 to all edged and pointy weapons (Melee 2 if the civilization is aggressive). You put the weapons in the Pyramid, they get sharpened...

 

[Hive Watch]

Both Ahmenenhet Abraham Thutmose and Moses seem to be prophets, they're not even real Egyptians, I would call their gov't type benevolent Despotism, they were the only messenger of god, and everybody must obey them completely.

And the pyramids today is definitely not as glorious compare to when it was first build, the gold on top is stolen, that lion statue lost its nose, inside is also desecrated by grave robbers, and the wind erosion doesnt help neither

 

[GoodGame]

why does a giant tomb give you all gov't types? if it does? why does egypt, who build it irl use hereditary rule? I think this effect belong to a greek wonder.

Hereditary rule makes a lot of sense for modelling ancient Egypt, since a lot of the dynasties were that way. The idea of the Pyramid is it's a mega-authoritarian wonder. Consider the pyramids weren't just tombs but symbols of the divine power of the rulers. The tombs guaranteed the rulers' immortality and place with the gods, not just some kind of mausolleum.

 

[r_rolo1]

And the pyramids today is definitely not as glorious compare to when it was first build, the gold on top is stolen, that lion statue lost its nose, inside is also desecrated by grave robbers, and the wind erosion doesnt help neither

...Not mentioning the limestone covering that was used for building. The Pyramids were used as quarry for a long time.