Elder Scrolls V: Oblivion Part 2?

[PeteAtoms]

The problem with having unarmoured be governed by Agility / Endurance rather than a separate skill is that it makes being unarmoured/wearing clothes a worse choice than wearing any armour (for which you got skill points and get increasingly better use out of).

Over the course of the game, not wearing armour became a significant burden that way. You might feel that to be realistic, but it means that any mage / thief / assassin roleplayers had to game the system instead of play it, and were pretty much forced to wear armour in the end.

Balance is the solution. And of course it is easy to say, "duh, just make it balanced," but I'm not a designer and I'm pretty sure it is a tremendously difficult issue to deal with. But I think that's the issue.

Why can't a mage or thief put skill points into an actual armor skill instead of a meta-game fix skill? What's stopping someone from playing a mage or theif that also has heavy armor as a major skill?

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

You can't tell people whats fun for them in an RPG, especially one that strives to be open-ended like the Elder Scrolls. I'd never play a game without wearing armour but I can appreciate that there are people that don't want to and got shafted in Oblivion.

Well DUH. You're not wearing armour, of course you're not going to be able to resist as much damage, that is hwy they invented armour in the first place!

Really? I tell you the stuff you learn on this forum that they just don't teach you in school.

Balance is the solution. And of course it is easy to say, "duh, just make it balanced," but I'm not a designer and I'm pretty sure it is a tremendously difficult issue to deal with. But I think that's the issue.

Why can't a mage or thief put skill points into an actual armor skill instead of a meta-game fix skill? What's stopping someone from playing a mage or theif that also has heavy armor as a major skill?

The armour skill traits are all just meta-game bodges, to be honest.

How do you get "better" at wearing armour in a similar magnitude in weilding a weapon, making/repairing stuff, picking locks, or theoretically in casting spells? It's the same with the athletics and acrobatics traits. Sure there are techniques to running, walking, jumping and swimming faster and more efficiently, but proficiency in doing so has more to do with how you've trained your body and mind than it does in a one-size-fits-all trait.

Given that a lot of these bodge skills were removed in Fallout 3, there is always the chance they won't make it into Skyrim. But if light and heavy armour are added, unarmoured should be as well.

 

[civ_king]

You can't tell people whats fun for them in an RPG, especially one that strives to be open-ended like the Elder Scrolls. I'd never play a game without wearing armour but I can appreciate that there are people that don't want to and got shafted in Oblivion.


Really? I tell you the stuff you learn on this forum that they just don't teach you in school.



The armour skill traits are all just meta-game bodges, to be honest.

How do you get "better" at wearing armour in a similar magnitude in weilding a weapon, making/repairing stuff, picking locks, or theoretically in casting spells? It's the same with the athletics and acrobatics traits. Sure there are techniques to running, walking, jumping and swimming faster and more efficiently, but proficiency in doing so has more to do with how you've trained your body and mind than it does in a one-size-fits-all trait.

Given that a lot of these bodge skills were removed in Fallout 3, there is always the chance they won't make it into Skyrim. But if light and heavy armour are added, unarmoured should be as well.

Because it is a gradual thing where you more adeptly wear heavy armor, just ask any SCA knight

 

[Clement]

Do you guys think that being "dragon born" limits the roleplay immersion a bit? apparently the magic is some kind of dragon shout, so if you want to be a mage it seems as if you are going to have to use these shouts instead of or at least "along with" classical magic.

I really do hope that the option to be a cloth wearing, staff wielding, beardy mage with normal magic is still there, i must admit that if the only magic route through the game is dragon shouting battle mage that wears armor, i'l find that disappointingly linear.

 

[Maniacal]

You can't tell people whats fun for them in an RPG, especially one that strives to be open-ended like the Elder Scrolls. I'd never play a game without wearing armour but I can appreciate that there are people that don't want to and got shafted in Oblivion.

Then they have to accept that wearing armour protects you more when getting hit by weapons and spells than when you aren't, and I'm sure they take that into account.

Really? I tell you the stuff you learn on this forum that they just don't teach you in school.

The hell is this supposed to mean?

The armour skill traits are all just meta-game bodges, to be honest.

How so?

How do you get "better" at wearing armour in a similar magnitude in weilding a weapon, making/repairing stuff, picking locks, or theoretically in casting spells? It's the same with the athletics and acrobatics traits. Sure there are techniques to running, walking, jumping and swimming faster and more efficiently, but proficiency in doing so has more to do with how you've trained your body and mind than it does in a one-size-fits-all trait.

Practice makes perfect, the more you practice and use something the better you will get at using it. This is kind of a basic fact of life...

Given that a lot of these bodge skills were removed in Fallout 3, there is always the chance they won't make it into Skyrim. But if light and heavy armour are added, unarmoured should be as well.

Fallout 3 was also going off skills from the original Fallout games tooand I'm sure there will be some kind of unarmoured thing for Skyrim (but we'll see when the game is released).

Do you guys think that being "dragon born" limits the roleplay immersion a bit? apparently the magic is some kind of dragon shout, so if you want to be a mage it seems as if you are going to have to use these shouts instead of or at least "along with" classical magic.

I really do hope that the option to be a cloth wearing, staff wielding, beardy mage with normal magic is still there, i must admit that if the only magic route through the game is dragon shouting battle mage that wears armor, i'l find that disappointingly linear.

It wouldn't surprise me if you can completely skip the entire main quest (except the start of the game) just like in all of Bethesda's other TES games and Fallout 3. Not to mention there will be plenty of mods to further improve it.

 

[PeteAtoms]

Do you guys think that being "dragon born" limits the roleplay immersion a bit? apparently the magic is some kind of dragon shout, so if you want to be a mage it seems as if you are going to have to use these shouts instead of or at least "along with" classical magic.

I really do hope that the option to be a cloth wearing, staff wielding, beardy mage with normal magic is still there, i must admit that if the only magic route through the game is dragon shouting battle mage that wears armor, i'l find that disappointingly linear.

I don't think it will be any harder to roleplay your character in Skyrim than it was is Morrowind. In Morrowind you were the reincarnation of an ancient Chimer hero... but it didn't really pigeon hole you into playing a certain role or background.

I'll be happy if they keep the character past vague as it has been. But I think they can be more creative than starting out in prison for the third time in a row...

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

The hell is this supposed to mean?

Sarcastic response to sarcastic comment.

Practice makes perfect, the more you practice and use something the better you will get at using it. This is kind of a basic fact of life...

Fallout 3 was also going off skills from the original Fallout games tooand I'm sure there will be some kind of unarmoured thing for Skyrim (but we'll see when the game is released).

Er... you think unarmoured combat isn't any different? It isn't. I'd be surprised if Fallout hasn't influenced how they make Skyrim, just like how the ES games influenced how they made Fallout 3. It's a wait and see.

 

[generalstaff]

I really do hope that the option to be a cloth wearing, staff wielding, beardy mage with normal magic is still there, i must admit that if the only magic route through the game is dragon shouting battle mage that wears armor, i'l find that disappointingly linear.

That was kind of my point earlier. The option to be the classic bearded, robed mage, or the Agent class in Oblivion (no armor, but used stealth and a bow). I agree with PeteAtoms' response that unarmored characters should not be designed to be melee, unless unarmored becomes a dodge mechanic. I have to also agree that chances are it will be easy to RP a character, especially since there will be modders out there who will work on that aspect if Bethesda does not.

 

[Maniacal]

Sarcastic response to sarcastic comment.

I wasn't being sarcastic beyond the "well duh" part.

Er... you think unarmoured combat isn't any different? It isn't.

I don't know where you got that idea that I didn't think unarmoured could improve through practice.

I'd be surprised if Fallout hasn't influenced how they make Skyrim, just like how the ES games influenced how they made Fallout 3. It's a wait and see.

And I'm sure it has influenced and hopefully helped them improve character creation.

 

[Clement]

Just read on the official boards we won't be able to create spells any more, this is way too early for me to start feeling depressed about the game, i don't know what to think, i keep seeing the dreaded word "streamlining".

 

[Mustakrakish]

Jesus Popsicle Sucking Christ! That word is getting everywhere for the last couple of years.

Also "modders this and modders that" doesn't make me happy. I want them devs to make the game complete. Not lack something important, so that "modders can do this and do that"... Does anyone understands what I'm talking about?

While I respect some modder's work, I want to enjoy the game without having to resort to mods. Know what I mean?

 

[Clement]

Yeah it's like there is some kind of streamlining guru in the game industry who's mantra everyone follows, less is more! less is more! less is more!

Ah well thats life, i have a feeling mages won't be too happy with these omissions should it turn out to be true, but this really made me laugh, its captain kirk's reaction to "streamlining" in skyrim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mABmZETHaRE

 

[PeteAtoms]

Well you're absolutely right, sometimes less is NOT more.

But you have to admit that sometimes more is NOT better and sometimes less IS better.

Maybe I'm an optimist in a forum full of pessimists, but I think the game will be fun whether it fits my preconceived notions or not.

'Streamline' is not a bad word as far as I'm concerned, in fact I prefer it to what everyone is suggesting (throwing in crap for the sake of having complexity instead of fun).

 

[Rub'Rum]

We got some awesome games that got streamlined in the past few years like Spore, Civilization V and Fable III (which was a streamlined version of II which was a streamlined version of 1 which was a streamlined version of what it was going to be),

 

[PeteAtoms]

We got some awesome games that got streamlined in the past few years like Spore, Civilization V and Fable III (which was a streamlined version of II which was a streamlined version of 1 which was a streamlined version of what it was going to be),

I wish I had one of those ol' Xzibit pics so I could tell you we put some streamline in your streamline.

 

[civ_king]

yo dawg I herd u liek streamlining so I streamlined yo streamlined car

 

[Double A]

Saying Skyrim around my friend gives him an instant nerdgasm.

Just thought I'd share.

 

[Clement]

yo dawg I herd u liek streamlining so I streamlined yo streamlined car

Bah that doesnt look streamlined to current game industry specifications at all! look it still has wheels and an engine!

Edit* new "streamlined" UI for skyrim http://www.gameinformer.com/games/t...e/2011/01/28/skyrim-menu-system-overhaul.aspx it sounds pretty good, i just hope it doesnt lose depth in the process.

 

[Double A]

Yeah, for once it seems, by "streamline," a company means "remove clutter," not "dumb down."

 

[PeteAtoms]

It also looks like they brought back Enchanting as a skill and renamed "Armorer" to "Smithing," interesting, I'm not sure what that skill is on the far left though, I only see '-aft'