Elemental cities

[subanark]

Here is an idea, special cities:

City of Wind:
Has a chance at the beginning of the game of spawning on a peak under the barbarian's control guarded by some flying units (quantity depends game difficulty). The city can only be attacked by units that can move though peaks.
The city cannot work tiles, all citizens are specialists. Population consumes 0 and will grow until the city becomes too unhealthy. City cannot produce units (maybe only flying units), only buildings. May have some other special features making it worth capturing.

City of Water:
Can be built by creating a world settler boat unit (requires water mana). Settler can build a city on any ocean tile. The city may only work ocean squares (no coast squares) and gets 212 (including the food from a free lighthouse). The city has a chance of moving (along with all units in its square each turn) to an adjacent square.

City of Fire:
Wonder that can be built by evil civs when the Armageddon counter is at least 40, requires fire mana. It spreads the hell terrain and grants -1 , +1 fire affinity to units created.

City of Earth:
Build a special settler unit (requires earth mana), that when a city is created can use work tiles that is also being worked by another city. This city can also work tiles that are owned by an opposing civ, or are occupied by a hostile unit.

 

[abculatter2]

hmmm... some interesting ideas, but the water and earth city specials seem like they'd be impossible to code. Very creative ideas though.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Frankly, I fail to see the point.

 

[Darksaber1]

Yeah, no offensece mean subanark, I don't see any reason to add them to the main game. I add more features that just don't do much.
That said, if you mod it into a mod-mod where these cities could train brandnew types of Elementals, then that could be popular.

 

[arcticnightwolf]

hmmm... some interesting ideas, but the water and earth city specials seem like they'd be impossible to code. Very creative ideas though.

So, maybe instead city, do unit and have buildings as promotions ... but this will cause insane count of promotions ... bad idea ... nevermind

 

[subanark]

They shouldn't do much, and shouldn't be part of any core strategy. Its just a small bit of flavor. With that being said, the earth, water, and fire would probably be presented as part of an event, or be limited in some way so that it would not be unusual that none of these are seen in a game. I personally want more features that don't do much. Too many features that do a lot, and it gets confusing and hard to balance.

As far as "impossible to code" thats not true, it could be very difficult as you might need to work around existing assumptions in the code. The API is turning complete and gives full access to draw anything on the screen.

 

[Ksi]

Why are they living in cities though? And why are they so xenophobic? Can all of elementia not coexist peacefully in Erebus? And where do the Non-Earth elementals sleep? Not much of a city.

Or how about No.

 

[subanark]

Why are they living in cities though? And why are they so xenophobic? Can all of elementia not coexist peacefully in Erebus? And where do the Non-Earth elementals sleep? Not much of a city.

Or how about No.

Eh? The elemental cities are not where elementals are living, they are cities heavily influenced by one of the elements. This has nothing to do with the elemental beings from the elemental plane (or wherever they come from).

The city of Air, is simply a city in the sky. The city of water is like Atlantis. The city of fire is one where fire burns all the time. The city of earth is underground.

 

[Arctic Circle]

All things are possible except the impossible ones.

I like this. For example there is a nomadic civ brewing in the mod section. And there is a civilization that is very 'air' oriented. Some things could be found there.

I am not sure about the difficulty. Could it be that the main reason atm that cities can't be built on mountains or sea's is that settlers can't go there? If so this is not that tricky. Harder if its hard-coded somewhere that the terrain mountains and water cannot be placed with cities.

Guess water-walking settlers can't make water-based cities..


Personally, I'd like a air-based city.. not on a mountain but 'free-floating' across the map.

 

[AdRealist]

Flavor is always useful when added to the game. The air and water city I liked best. Adding a special something to the mountains, and turning a floating city mobile are genuine ideas. How about they can't be built by players but instead spawn in the beginning game? With .33 the Letum Frigus and other ancient locations have been beefed up to have more purpose. With the exception of the Fruit Tree (ha; reminiscent of another player's comment - "You have won the Fruit Tree victory on turn 30!")

What if the cities were always on the move. They provided bonuses to player civilizations and units while being in the neighborhood? Unique events would especially be plus. Event's that are easy to code, have noticable implications, and are quite unexpected.

Unique events are exactly where FFH can shine in comparison to vanilla. Being a fantasy theme (a dark one at that) It'd draw us RPG fan's into the role when we're actively empathizing with the subjects of our empire, based on the events that transpire.

 

[subanark]

I'm not sure how practical it would be to have the air city moving around (minus any potential coding difficulties). It could easily get in the way of units, and could cause problems if it floats over a resource currently being used.

What your thinking of would be much easier to implement as a unit. For instance a very powerful divine angle that doesn't attack any unit and grants a bonus to good civilization units close to it.

 

[Schmoe]

Or how about No.

How about "Lose the attitude." There's no reason to be rude to people for sharing their ideas with the board.

Personally, I like the general concept. It would be cool to have some neutral/barbarian cities at the start of the game that are truly unique and offer something that can't be found otherwise in the game. I'd like to see each one as a full-fledged barbarian city that produces units for players to contend with.

Here are some of my thoughts. Each one would be created as a neutral city during world-gen:

Air - I like this idea
Water - Again, very cool. This could be the base for the Black Wind
Fire - Make it into a city that has a building (Hall of Fire or something) granting +1 Fire mana, and all units produced in the city have -1 strength +1 Fire affinity.
Earth - Make it so that citizens use 20% of hammers for population growth and 80% for production, and all tiles worked by the city yield 0 food and +1 hammer.

 

[monolith94]

The water city idea is almost too perfect for the Lanun.

 

[Visage Darkskin]

While I wasn't initially enthralled by the idea, I must say that the concept has grown on me. In a similar manner to the unique features, unique (barbarian?) cities that could be captured and give your civ. access to some unique units and/or buildings, would seem like an interesting flavor addition.

I can already see human players attacking others in order to get control of such an addition to their empires.

I really like how the conditions of availability of each city might vary. Whether they give access to mana, one air/fire etc. strength point to units built there, or unique buildings and units, or even diplomacy bonus (From Falamar: +1 You own the City of Water!), I can definitely see them as adding some very interesting flavor. I also think that if a coder can be recruited a little bit more tinkering with the ideas for each city might be required. Hopefully with the participation of helpful comments by other people.

I can totally see this idea implemented as a modmod (more than trying to convince the crowd to include it in the original mod). Maybe pitch the idea to be included in the FF modmod?

On the water city, maybe tie it's lore can be tied to the extinct race of merman (failed to remember their name) and instead of appearing on water, placing the city itself on a one tile island might make it easier to code.

Again, kudos on experimenting with interesting, original ideas to add uniqueness to the mod.

 

[Ksi]

How about "Lose the attitude." There's no reason to be rude to people for sharing their ideas with the board.

Personally, I like the general concept. It would be cool to have some neutral/barbarian cities at the start of the game that are truly unique and offer something that can't be found otherwise in the game. I'd like to see each one as a full-fledged barbarian city that produces units for players to contend with.

Here are some of my thoughts. Each one would be created as a neutral city during world-gen:
Air - I like this idea
Water - Again, very cool. This could be the base for the Black Wind
Fire - Make it into a city that has a building (Hall of Fire or something) granting +1 Fire mana, and all units produced in the city have -1 strength +1 Fire affinity.
Earth - Make it so that citizens use 20% of hammers for population growth and 80% for production, and all tiles worked by the city yield 0 food and +1 hammer.

Read the forums. I have no problem with people sharing their ideas but that also means people can share their opinions which you do not seem to understand. Water cities and the like have been discussed already and there is a nomad mod in development.

I pointed out the flavour problems I see as by now everyone knows the mechanical ones. Not to be offensive but your ideas hardly warrant a post barring your lesson in pseudoethics. I would hardly wish at this point to make you look like a fool by mentioning the line you quoted from me deals with the Earth elementals in my previous line. The topic creator obivously understood and told me the cities were not literally of elementals (as did everyone else in the thread other than you.) You however, seem to have trouble with this. If you speak a foreign language I apologise for pointing this out but many of us here (including me) do as well.

No one is going to add a city to a mod just so for a "hall of fire" or a base for the Blackwind. Again I have no problems with ideas but I would rather discussion be realistic. Lanun workboat settlers have been proposed which does not sound bad to me but an Earth city that eats hammers? Please think about your post before you post it.

 

[AdRealist]

Read the forums. I have no problem with people sharing their ideas but that also means people can share their opinions which you do not seem to understand. Water cities and the like have been discussed already and there is a nomad mod in development.

Out of many of the commercial internet forums that I've been too, it was always a turn off how the power players or 'hard core' had an attitude. With Fall From Heaven I've enjoyed being on this website for it's friendly atmosphere. 'Pseudo ethics'? Actually its just an individual loosely throwing some ideas around, brainstorming. Which is enough to warrant a separate thread for that. As to the 'technical difficulties and out of flavor idea that nobody is going to waste time modding', well, that's the purpose for this discussion, to see what will work, what doesn't, and if it has the right kind of flavor. You could have projected all of your criticism's without the inflated elitism. Rather pathetic when people take something that's supposed to be fun and abuse it to boost their sense of self worth.

 

[Ksi]

Out of many of the commercial internet forums that I've been too, it was always a turn off how the power players or 'hard core' had an attitude. With Fall From Heaven I've enjoyed being on this website for it's friendly atmosphere. 'Pseudo ethics'? Actually its just an individual loosely throwing some ideas around, brainstorming. Which is enough to warrant a separate thread for that. As to the 'technical difficulties and out of flavor idea that nobody is going to waste time modding', well, that's the purpose for this discussion, to see what will work, what doesn't, and if it has the right kind of flavor. You could have projected all of your criticism's without the inflated elitism. Rather pathetic when people take something that's supposed to be fun and abuse it to boost their sense of self worth.

While your abecedarian argument is touching, all criticism prior to Schmoe's lovely response in which he a misinterpreted phrase that was understood by the creator and had nothing to do with malice. My idea contained nothing but flavour questions. I was poking fun at my idea of earth elementals in houses. This "or how about no" was misunderstood by one person leading to his ludicrous attack which he then covered up and made on topic by including his hammer city and whatnot. Call me arrogant if you think this hammar-eating city should be in 34. I do however admire in your attack you did not even try to stay on topic.

There is no reason to start throwing such infantile and cowardly phrases implying I am pathetic when I voice my opinion backed with fact on an idea. If you would like to insult my character and turn this into a flame war I am sure in the many commercial forums you have been too you can find one that encourages this. It is a turn-off when forumites play rebel without a cause.

If you do not understand a post (as I can from your inane comments on self-worth) please leave it alone or suggest something the developers can seriously use.

I find it mind-blowing how a self-depreciating joke can be misunderstood by one or two people to such a degree. It would like to adumbrate however, if you are going to talk about a friendly community, do not be the first to throw fire, especially if you do not understand. In nature, there is no such thing as a contradiction, if you find one in your logic; check your premises and you will find one is wrong.

I am not going to argue anymore. You ended your argument with a flame and it is obvious where you would like this to go. I would love to come to an understanding with you but by your flames it would imply you have no desire to even try. That is not to say however, I would not love to be proved wrong. If you would like to go over both our view-points it in a logical and mature manner feel free to PM me. Otherwise I speak for myself, and the health of the board in general when I say this arguement is over.

 

[avalonnn]

Looks good to me as a modmod, with tweaks as suggested by veteran tweakers. I would suggest one more thing: each civ can only build one of the four. Water seems to fit Falamar, the dwarves would be right for Earth.

My $.02

Earth: double value of base square (working terrain under the city)

Air: bonus trade route with one other city in your civ? Or a barbarian city that send out storms, 3 turn summons that pillage land?

Water: very cool

if moving cities cannot be coded, they cannot be coded. I wouldn't know.

Might also have an option where only the barbs can build them, and then players have to conquer them.

Also on the fence as to whether each should generate its appropriate mana. I find the holy cities are extremely valuable as gold (or beaker) generators -- but that the mana they provide helps me in ways that surprise me.

Finally, if you feel some civs are weak, you could allow only those civs to build these (Lanun and Kurio are tough, although some people here focus on them).
Fire: neat

 

[AdRealist]

Using these cities to beef up underpowered civs sounds good. Though I don't necessarily view the Kurio's as weak however

With these cities being allowed to be built by any civ - that may add to the problem of 'super strategies' where it basically becomes a requirement to do these things, if your to stay competitive. Like the Witch trials for instance, where either you can accept the +1 happiness, or throw it away with little benefit otherwise. The counter arguement to that is the serious lack of wonders in this game. Therefore if the cities could be viewed in the same way of wonders then maybe it'll be a helpful addition. What they do on an individual bases, I don't believe is as important as how accessible these cities are, and if they are civilization built, or spawn naturally on the map. The air civ adding to trade routes ain't bad. As it stands right now, Fall From Heaven is so war oriented, it may give pacifistic strategies (on higher levels) a fairer chance of victory.

I'm curious what the main design team thinks of this, if they believe that these concepts are worth implementing, or in what form it should take, if any? Agian, I'll add that for the mod what appears to make it stand out from vanilla is the extra freedom to implement events, or unique map elements. A mod mod is nice, but nothing beats 'official assimilation'.

 

[Shadius]

While I love the idea of having more 'unique' cities, I'm not sure the specifics suggested here would really work. The suggestion somebody made of adding more unique barbarian cities (ala Acheron) sounds great, though. A few ideas jump to mind...

A 'Necropolis' style city. The earth here suffers from an age-old curse, causing all who die nearby to rise again as sentient undead. Food and health do nothing, and population grows only by people willingly migrating to the city (easier for evil civs, perhaps?). Starts out controlled by a horde of undead. All units built in this city recieve the 'undead' trait.

A 'City of the Rift'. A gigantic interplanar rift dominates this city's skyline - a passage trough which visitors from other worlds regularly arrive. Interplanar trade stations may be built here, granting the owner access to exotic, otherworldy trade goods. Extraplanar warriors may potentially be recruited here - at a price.

I suppose they wouldn't need to start out as barbarians cities, on second thought. One could also allow a player's city to be transformed by wonders or event chains. The best approach, I guess, would be whatever best fits the lore for the particular concept.