Elohim Guide

Since monuments give exactly as much culture as the creative trait (instead of 1/2 as in vanilla BtS/Civ4) and borders can be easily pushed out via small and cheap culture bombs as quickly as the first turn the new city is built, the Creative trait just isn't very appealing to me. Another bonus of the Philosophical trait are the cheap Elder Councils, allowing you to add a significant amount to early teching with each city, especially if you decide to run a sage in most of them.
 
What whould really help phil (and ancient chants for that matter) as well as make sense for an a bit more interesting early game and flavor, whould be to relocate pagan temples (a flavorfull change as well imo...) from Mysticism to Ancient Chants. Did make this suggestion a while ago, 0.32 i belive, but was not heeded so far (perhaps that might change.).
(because i find pagan temples underpowered by far compared to the corosponding buildings (in regards to cost and effect). At least spiritual got half cost now. Still few effect late and no synergy with religion-civic. :()
+ Mysticism is a bit overloaded anyways imo.


Then you actually might get your first Prophet out out, the time you start to work a Sage from your Elder council offering additional leverage to the trait. (this is especially true for Phil civs starting with pacifism naturally.)

Disagree with Creative beeing better than Philosophical still. Not least thanks to the interesting build-options hastened (cheaper councils and libraries.). (But thats also down to my playstyle. I never had real problems with culture in FFH 2 and even rarely take the time / hammers to build obelisks. I could very well see players playing differently / more aggressive likeing Creative much more. Someone going all out conquest / aiming for domination might find creative invaluable...)
 
Zechnophobe had a point, this is more than a question of creative vs philosophical by themselves. The problem was how Ethne could leverage creative as well as Einion can leverage philosophical.

I think I've found a way. Though it still needs more playtesting. Maybe someone can try this Ethne specific strat out in their next Elohim game:

Settle capital next to open plantation/pasture resources.

Agriculture --> [Calendar <--> Animal Husbandry] --> Horseback Riding

The key is to get Animal husbandry before settling your 2nd city, so you can settle near Horses.

Using Horsemen, you take out/cripple your nearest non-good civ, with a priority for evil ones. Evil civs are gonna declare war on you eventually anyway.

Rush for the Empyrean/CoE religions. Then go into builder phase (or keep conquering?).​

The way I see it is:

  • Creative makes it easier to grab resources like Horses.
  • Creative's culture makes it more feasible to wait for a late religion like Empyrean/CoE.
  • Creative makes it easier to get conquered cities up and running alot sooner (like Blackmantle mentioned), so you can benefit from Tolerant faster.
  • Cavalry defend a large area better, so you can defend your territory easily from barbs.
  • Cavalry are the only units that truly benefit from the Homeland withdrawal bonus.
 
Or for even more awesomeness in Mounted warfare grab a hippus city by Warriorush if near (thanks to their palace horses shouldn't be a problem.).

Also Elhoims Hippus-horsemen are unmatched with regards to Withdrawl.
Their Hippus-Horsemen starting at 45% (in addition to the usual 4 Base movement thanks to horselord.) :eek:
Just 2 Promotions / 1 offensive Fight and they are up to 85% (no more promotion possible sadly afterwards. At least in the current conditions. Hopefully the limit will be upped to 95% one day...) Then you can take most fights with impunity without all to much worry...
That should make for killer Chariots if Copper is Available / Iron from Gal-Dur are Grabbed. (On that note Runes seems like a very decent pick for Ethne. At least in early game... Militaristic Elhoims dream. Rushing buildings and temples everywere, granting support for a huge Empire / Army in newly conquered territory fast. :D And unflavorful to boot...)


And if you play immortal or below (Deity seems very, very hard with Elhoim anyways in my book... Unless you start right next / very close to patria or to a lesser degree near Yigdrasil. So you have to have a very luck draw... Whouldn't try them above immortal myselves. Usually play Emperor with them.) you could try to grab a few Animals with Scouts promoted to subdue Animal and upgraded to Horsemen... If you go that path chances are rather high to get some of those caught.
 
A good thing to do with Corlindale is rush Death3 and turn him into a lich, which makes his base strength 7. That way, he can beat people up, gain experience faster, give assassins the finger, and eventually get to twincasting Empower-5 wraiths.

There are other, more exploitive strategies you can do with Corlindale the Lich, but they're not necessary. It's a great thing to go for even without them.
 
Monkeyfinger said:
A good thing to do with Corlindale is rush Death3 and turn him into a lich, which makes his base strength 7. That way, he can beat people up, gain experience faster, give assassins the finger, and eventually get to twincasting Empower-5 wraiths.

There are other, more exploitive strategies you can do with Corlindale the Lich, but they're not necessary. It's a great thing to go for even without them.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately then you will not get peace.
 
Which is why people recommend giving him both Death III and Life III, so the Corindale-Lich can resurrect a living version of himself so you can use peace. You can also keep turning into a lich and getting him back again.
 
MagisterCultuum said:
Which is why people recommend giving him both Death III and Life III, so the Corindale-Lich can resurrect a living version of himself so you can use peace. You can also keep turning into a lich and getting him back again.
Click to expand...


Yeah that's about as exploitive as it gets. I'm assuming that will be fixed in the future.
 
I think I just found an Elohim nerf in 0.34:

45. Added a CivTrait mechanic (trait given to a leader based on his civ) Sprawling, Fallow, Dexterous, Guardsman, Sinister, Sundered and Horselord are now civ traits.
46. Removed the Ljosalfar Archery Range, Bannor Training Yard, Svartalfar Hunting Lodge, Sundered Sanctum and the Hippus Stables buildings (since the civ traits now grant these abilities).
Click to expand...

If I read this right, you can no longer get units with sinister, guardsman, dextrous etc even after you capture cities by that civ. Boo! So now your Svart assassin from your captured city won't be as strong as the Svart's own assassins.
 
I think that since it is a CivTrait that it will be associated with the Civilization's culture and so it should be fine for the Elohim.
 
Mailbox said:
I think that since it is a CivTrait that it will be associated with the Civilization's culture and so it should be fine for the Elohim.
Click to expand...

45. Added a CivTrait mechanic (trait given to a leader based on his civ)
Click to expand...

As you can see it's added to the Leader (it's a trait, mind you...) so it won't work for Elohim conquered cities.
 
onedreamer said:
As you can see it's added to the Leader (it's a trait, mind you...) so it won't work for Elohim conquered cities.
Click to expand...

Just confirmed it. Built a horseman in a former Hippus city and didn't get the horselord promotion. It's a little disappointing, but doesn't make much difference in the grand scheme of things.
 
EverNoob said:
Message from the Deep and Priesthood need to be bulbed with Great Prophets, the 1st prophet from Pagan Temple, and the 2nd from Pagan Temple + Temple of the OO. To bulb MftD you need to have researched Philosophy but NOT Education. Once you have MftD you can build/upgrade a few Drown to tide you over until Monks. If you're playing Ethne, you need to switch to Pacifism temporarily to generate the 2nd Great Prophet for Priesthood.
Click to expand...
Are you sure about this bit? I'm only calling you out on this because I was also called out on some similar advice I gave recently based on how I played 0.23c :rolleyes: (only upgraded a few weeks ago).

Looking at the manual (granted, could be wrong there instead), the bulbing sequence goes:
  1. Corruption of Spirit
  2. Priesthood
  3. Religious Law
  4. Commune with Nature
  5. Hidden Paths
  6. Infernal Pact
  7. Malevolent Designs
  8. Way of the Earthmother
  9. Way of the Forests
  10. Deception
  11. Honour
  12. Message of the Deep
  13. Philosophy
So I think as long as you have the prerequisites (Mining, Hunting, Fishing), you can get any of the respective religions in the order they are shown. However, if you researched Philosophy before you got your first Great Prophet, then unfortunately Priesthood will pop before the basic religions.
 
Getting it (the religion in question of course) without a bulb and saving the GP for a part-bulbing of Priesthood imo still seems like the much better idea.
And an academy (from a sage, no matter if the first or second one is a sage) + 1 Priest (for priesthood-bulb) whould net out a bit better overall than 2 Priests i belive even for getting religion + Priesthood. Especially because you benefit from the Academy afterwards for the rest of the game...

20+ Turns might seem like very much but you can survive so long with Warriors / Hunters usually... And afterwards you will be glad you saved your greath person...
 
Blackmantle said:
Getting it (the religion in question of course) without a bulb and saving the GP for a part-bulbing of Priesthood imo still seems like the much better idea.
And an academy (from a sage, no matter if the first or second one is a sage) + 1 Priest (for priesthood-bulb) whould net out a bit better overall than 2 Priests i belive even for getting religion + Priesthood. Especially because you benefit from the Academy afterwards for the rest of the game...

20+ Turns might seem like very much but you can survive so long with Warriors / Hunters usually... And afterwards you will be glad you saved your greath person...
Click to expand...

It really depends what religion you're trying to found. For example, I've almost never been able to beat the Ljosalfar to FoL without bulbing. Even with bulbing they sometimes beat me to it! Same for RoK and dwarves, though to a lesser extent.

However founding OO the long way is doable because the AI usually doesn't beeline for it.

Then again you don't necessarily have to found a religion. As you say, it's good to build the Academy too if you're not in a hurry for a religion. Especially if you're gonna go for the late religions.

It all boils down to how badly you want to found a religion and how much risk you're willing to take on someone beating you to it.
 
Well, with early Priests (no matter which of the 3 early ones you pick. Easiest of course with FoL and OO) you can grab that holy city from their cold dead hands (or perhaps via culture war if you have the means and a city close enough in place)... :p (I know its rather unthematic to go to war with elhoim but this is a strategy subforum so i feel its worth noting. Or at least you got a staunch ally if you don't and play according to civ-background.)

Thats also intersting because of the Tolerant trait after all (don't know if the Elves still offer so many neat things but both they're palaces are very neat. Especially that of the Svarts...).
 
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