Embargo madness

[maddskillz]

So I am trying for a world domination victory, and all the whiny civs have joined forces against me lead by the hated Pacal . . . and slapped an embargo on me. It has been over 50 turns now and it still stands, when does the embargo end or does it?

Thanks for reading!

 

[liv]

Embargoes have to be repealed by the World Congress.

But the Embargo on you is a bit of a blessing actually. It means that they cannot send caravans to you and get a tourist victory easier. If you are the science leader they cannot get science advantage from the trade. You can use your own caravans to grown your own cities.

I have actually sometimes voted for the embargo of myself if I am warmongering and all else is OK

 

[Sclb]

You're losing a lot of potential gpt by placing an embargo on yourself, you can only trade with CS and they give significantly less gpt. Also if you're a warmonger your happiness will be low and it's usually better to use external trade routes.

 

[darkskies]

This is another advantage of going patronage: it helps you get a hold of city-states so you can rest control of and dominate the world congress once the industrial era becomes dominant (if you play that far) or at least early on you get to control one of the policies that will be voted on.

As for gold from city-states if you go that far in patronage the 2gpt in the mid-game can make city-states better trading partners than the other civs.

If someone does try to embargo me I'll do two things: try to get (or keep) some friends and take out the player who chose that policy to vote on before the vote occurs. But even if it passes I can usually get it repealed in the next vote (as often by then I'll be able to out vote the other players). If you have some AI's that are trading with you they are unlikely to vote for an embargo of you, at least in my experience, if they are neutral or higher to you.

The one I hate is embargo of the city-states: I will wipe out any civ that proposes that no exceptions.

 

[ima]

You're losing a lot of potential gpt by placing an embargo on yourself, you can only trade with CS and they give significantly less gpt. Also if you're a warmonger your happiness will be low and it's usually better to use external trade routes.

Not really, if you have happiness issues you can still send internal hammers TR, they'll be safer, wont provide gold/science to your opponents (dont forget that a TR is alos slightly beneficial to the receiving civ) and hammers are awesome when you need military units.

 

[kamex]

The one I hate is embargo of the city-states: I will wipe out any civ that proposes that no exceptions.

No idea what encourages that proposition... I think its just random...

 

[lindsay40k]

Related musing: if everyone hates you, will proposing an embargo of yourself get them telling you they agree, well done mate?

 

[darkskies]

No idea what encourages that proposition... I think its just random...

Seriously, it seem like they are all random choices, the whole world congress thing needs reworking IMHO it's so easy to manipulate 99 out of 100 times it's really just another way to weaken the AI's.

 

[beetle]

No idea what encourages that proposition... I think its just random...

I have been looking for patterns, and it seems to me that CS embargo is more likely when either (1) the civ has good leverage over the CS already (e.g., Alex), or (2) the civ has no CS allies. So it does make some tactical sense, but I hate it as well.

 

[phillipwyllie]

Related musing: if everyone hates you, will proposing an embargo of yourself get them telling you they agree, well done mate?

You can't propose embargoing yourself.

 

[lindsay40k]

I have been looking for patterns, and it seems to me that CS embargo is more likely when either (1) the civ has good leverage over the CS already (e.g., Alex), or (2) the civ has no CS allies. So it does make some tactical sense, but I hate it as well.

Related: I've got a significant tech and SP lead and have got Treaty Organisation before anyone else even gets an Ideology. Alexander has proposed Embargo City States, rather than trying to start International Games or get us (I converted him) World Religion.

 

[beetle]

I've got … Treaty Organization before anyone else even gets an Ideology. Alexander has proposed Embargo City States

Clever AI! Playing like a human -- I hate that!

 

[docbud]

^^It is frustrating when the AI plays like a human, though that is what we players want.

One time I was the World Congress leader and had pushed through a lot of my proposals. But when I proposed my religion as world religion, the AI in second place proposed to repeal my ideology. Needless to say, I had to vote to keep my ideology and had to forego my proposal. I really ticked me off. But when I thought about it, it's probably something I would have done if I had been the AI.

Or when I try to push something through no one likes (except me), and they want to repeal something else of mine. It irks me, but it's something a human player would do.

Other times, the AI proposals make no sense to me.

 

[beetle]

But even if proposing to Embargo makes some tactical sense, why do all the AI up vote it? Like embargoing Jewelry or Porcelain, it is just so terrible short sighted. It is so very frustrating!

 

[lindsay40k]

But even if proposing to Embargo makes some tactical sense, why do all the AI up vote it? Like embargoing Jewelry or Porcelain, it is just so terrible short sighted. It is so very frustrating!

Actually, all the other AI said no in this game. Whaddaya know, eh?

 

[lindsay40k]

^^It is frustrating when the AI plays like a human, though that is what we players want.

One time I was the World Congress leader and had pushed through a lot of my proposals. But when I proposed my religion as world religion, the AI in second place proposed to repeal my ideology. Needless to say, I had to vote to keep my ideology and had to forego my proposal. I really ticked me off.

This is why, when I'm about to try a really controversial proposal, I tend to despatch diplomats and throw some luxuries and horses at gaining or neutralising (by paying to vote on the other proposal) core votes. WC dominance tends to come from a lot of conquered land generating revenues for buying CSs, which usually brings with it a crate of oil and aluminium the AI covets even if it can't use it.

 

[beetle]

Actually, all the other AI said no in this game. Whaddaya know, eh?

That is good luck! Does the AI vote depend on who proposed the resolution? I.e., did everyone hate Alex?

This is why, when I'm about to try a really controversial proposal, I tend to despatch diplomats and throw some luxuries and horses at gaining or neutralising (by paying to vote on the other proposal) core votes.

That is clever. You cannot bribe them to vote on your proposal, or maybe it is just too expensive, but you can tie up their four votes on the other resolution!

 

[redwings1340]

This is why, when I'm about to try a really controversial proposal, I tend to despatch diplomats and throw some luxuries and horses at gaining or neutralising (by paying to vote on the other proposal) core votes. WC dominance tends to come from a lot of conquered land generating revenues for buying CSs, which usually brings with it a crate of oil and aluminium the AI covets even if it can't use it.

I do that too when I need to, it works pretty well and gives you a better shot of success.

 

[lindsay40k]

That is good luck! Does the AI vote depend on who proposed the resolution? I.e., did everyone hate Alex?

No, we had a big DOF love-in. I think the others had a lot of CS trade routes, due to accident of geography and a belligerent Rome through which caravan routes rarely lasted long.

 

[Tzar Sasha]

Last game I got embargoed and couldn't trade with the other civs. Their mistake. I went freedom and took the policy that gave 4 points influence to city states that I had trade routes with as well as double election rigging. Made sure that all my spies save 2 in the two cities that they kept trying to steal from were in CS that I did not have a trade route with. Bought other CS with excess gold.

Long story short, by the time the first election for world leader rolled around, I had 46 of 47 votes needed.