Embarrassing Question number #3: How do you export a palette back into FLICster?!

[Kryten]

I have a bit of a confession....
....I have absolutely NO idea of how to permanently change even a single pixel of colour of a FLICster palette!
Every time I change the colours of a palette, and get the storyboard just as I want it, when I export the thing back into FLICster I end up with the ORIGINAL palette!

So far this has not been a problem, as I have just used the available colours of the original Civ3 unit palettes. But I want to branch out a bit.
Here is an example....

I usually use the Hoplite palette for most of my units, as it is one of the few with red as a non-civ colour. But as you can see, it contains almost no green shades....

So, naturally, I change some of the other shades into green and then I can save/load/edit the palette to my heart's content.....

However.....whenever I try to export the new storyboard with the new paletted colours back into FLICster, it ignors them, and reverts back to it's ORIGINAL ones....

Even if I try creating a NEW flc, I have NEVER, EVER, found a way of changing them from this.....

Sooooo....how's it done?
Am I to be forever stuck with simply copying & loading the 'straight-from-the-box' unit palettes, or am I missing the obvious?
Please

(I would much sooner be told that I am stupid rather than be told "It can't be done"......)

 

[BeBro]

What software do you use? I struggled with this as well quite a long time. I don´t have PSP, so I tried first Corel Photopaint, without success.

But then I tried it in Photoshop 5.5. and it worked great.

There it is quite simple:

Take a unit, use Flicster to create a storyboard. Load this into Photoshop, then change the palette (remember in Photoshop the shadow colors come first, the civ colors are the last four rows in the palette). Save the storyboard.

Then use this storyboard as template for all anims of your new unit. Eg. load it into Flicster, then set the frame number, size etc. and save it as storyboards for all anims you need. I recommend to make the first storyboard small, because you can make them always bigger in Flicster, but not smaller.

 

[Kryten]

Well, BeBro, I have tried, tried, and tried again.
I'm using PaintShop Pro7 and FLICster v 1.0.1 (build 18)....
I'm 'maintaining my indexes' when I load/save/edit a palette....
And I'm saving the new storyboard (with the edited palette) as a .pcx file....
No effect.

Here's an example following the steps you outlined:-

"Take a unit, use Flicster to create a storyboard"
Very well, I've used the Hoplite attackA as a base (no green shades)....

"Load this into Photoshop, then change the palette"
I've got PSP7, and I've added green shades, then made a green block....

"Save the storyboard"
Ah! here is where things start to go wrong.
Even when saved as a .pcx file, FLICster STILL has the green block in it's original brown colours....FLICster has accepted my storyboard changes but NOT the palette changes!
(I even made a copy of my new storyboard; this still HAS the new palette colours)

Exporting the saved storyboard had no effect....when I used FLICster to open the now altered flc file again, here were the colours....the ORIGINAL colours, not my changed ones....

A more dramatic effect can be seen when I create a NEW flc file in FLICster, then paste a unit onto it and save it.....

....and the colours are like this because all new FLICster palettes have these colours, and I have NEVER, EVER, been able to change even a single one.....

Soooo, after over a year of trying, after creating over 20 new single-figure units, nearly 50 multi-figure units, some new terrain & buildings & resources.....
.....I cannot change even ONE single pixel colour of a FLICster palette!

 

[Neomega]

Why are you trying to change the palette in FLICster?

Change it in your paint program while you are editing the storyboard.

If you need you can create a blank "master Palette .FLC of one frame with your desired palette, and then export storyboards from that, every storyboard you export will have the same palette.

 

[pdescobar]

Kryten, close the Flicster window for the unit and reopen it. Palette changes do *not* seem to take effect automatically in the Flicster preview, in my experience. You may very well be actually changing the palette correctly and Flicster is just ignoring it.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Why are you trying to change the palette in FLICster?

I don't think that's what he meant. I think he meant that when he tries to convert the unit to FLC using FLICster, it's resetting itself to the original palette....

Yes?

 

[Dom Pedro II]

When I make my units, I load up the storyboard in Photoshop, make a palette using the Pedit software and then load the new palette replacing the standard "new unit" FLICster palette. Then when I finish the storyboard, I save it, open up FLICster, and convert the unit... I've never have a problem.

 

[Kryten]

Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
I don't think that's what he meant. I think he meant that when he tries to convert the unit to FLC using FLICster, it's resetting itself to the original palette....
Yes?

YES!. Dom Pedro is right.
That is EXACTLY what is happening.

Let's see if I can explain it again, verbally this time, in case I am performing one of the following steps wrong:-

1) I use FLICster to open a flc file (say, Warrior attackA).
I can now see the animated warrior in the FLCster clock-face, but no new files have been created just yet.

2) I now press 'export' and 'export' again in FLICster for the first time in order to create a new storyboard.
This has created 4 new files:-
* a storyboard.pcx file that I can manipulate.
* a .pal file, with the pink palette.
* an Alpha.pal file, with the nice grey palette.
* and a Storyboard.FXM file, which is the FLICster control script.

3) I then open the .pcx file with PSP7 and make my changes.
For this example I will select the brightest yellow from the 'pink'.pal palette, and place a large yellow square in each frame, then save it as a .pcx file.
No changes can be seen in the FLICster clock-face until I change from the SW to SE direction and back again.
Yep....there is my yellow square over the warriors head.

4) Now I'm going to select 'Colours' and 'Edit Palette' and change that brightest yellow in the palette to green.
Good. All the warriors on the storyboard now have a green square over their heads instead of a bright yellow one.

5) This is where it all goes pear-shaped.....
I again save the storyboard as a .pcx file. There is no change in the FLICster clock-face.
I change the clock-face from the SW direction to SE and back again. STILL no change....the square is now green on the opened storyboard, but bright yellow in the animated clock-face!

6) In desperation I select the new green colour from the new .pal palette and draw another green box below all the warriors on the storyboard, then save it as a .pcx file.
Guess what I see after manipulating the FLICster clock-face?
Two YELLOW squares, one above and one below the animated warrior, while the storyboard has two GREEN squares.

7) I shouldn't need to do this step, but just in case....
I now select 'Colours' and 'Save Palette', then save the palette as a .pal file, overwriting the current one.
Manipulating the FLICster clock-face STILL shows no change....the squares are still yellow.

8) The storyboard has two green boxes, so I'll try saving that as a .pcx file and using 'export' and 'export' again to tell FLICster to apply the changes to the original .flc file.
I now close FLICster.

9) The final test....
I open FLICster once more and use it on the now changed warrior_attackA .flc.....
....and the clock-face has two YELLOW squares, with not a hint of green in sight!
Not only that, but opening a .flc file creates those new files that I mentioned in step 2, and the new storyboard with the just generated .pal palette is....yes guest it....YELLOW, with no green in it!

Conclusion
-------------
I can change and save a storyboard....
I can add new weapons, helmets, cloaks and shields....
I can paste several copies of him into each frame to make him multi-figured....
I can even slip a horse underneath him....
But I CANNOT get FLICster to accept any changes to the palette!

I must admit that I have never used Pedit (but then again, I've never been able to get FLICster to accept a palette change either).
Perhaps I should use it.

Could someone else out there with PaintShop Pro7 please try and follow all the steps that I have outlined above, and tell me if it works for you?

 

[Kryten]

Progress Report:-
....no progress really, just a list of failures.

I removed FLICster and reloaded it.......no effect.
I removed PaintShop and reloaded it....no effect.
I removed all other graphic software.....no effect.
I ran the defragmenter & diskscanner....no effect.
I tried kinboat's Pedit to make the palette....no effect.

I still get the situation where the storyboard has my new green on it, but the FLICster clock-face shows the original brown colour.

I wonder if someone could do me a small favour?
I have attached below a zip containing a HopliteFortify storyboard, and my Hoplite_with_green.pal palette.
I would very much like someone to open these and see if they can get their own version of FLICster to accept the new palette changes.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/hoplite_with_green.zip

* IF they CAN see the new palette in their own FLICster clock-face, then it means that I am creating it correctly, but my version of FLICster just won't accept it.
(Probably because a certain driver that FLICster needs is corrupted on my machine)

* IF, like me, they CANNOT see the new palette in the FLICster clock-face, then it means that my version of PSP7 is creating .pal palettes in a form that FLICster will not accept.
(Probably because a certain driver that PSP7 needs is corrupted on my machine)

Either way, it looks as if I am doomed forever to use only pre-created .flc palettes, and can never create any new ones of my own.

 

[BeBro]

Well, I´m perhaps not a big help, since I don´t use PSP, but from what I read here it sounds very strange.

One thing - normally (at least with Photoshop) you never need to change the palette files (.pal) itself. When changing the colors of a storyboard in Photoshop and saving it, Flicster uses then the new colors automatically.

Perhap PSP has some special options for saving pics with or without palette? Maybe you need to tell PSP that it should sve the changed colors with the storyboard?

To the file you attached: I cannot open it in flicster, since it says it is no storyboard. I guess it is because you didn´t attach the FXM file too. You need to attach four files.

- the Unit.pcx storyboard
- the Unit.fxm
- the Unit_Alpha.pal
- the Unit.pal

 

[embryodead]

ummm... like this? (attachment)

Honestly I never had this problem, and can't see it now too. The one thing that surprised me is your .pal file. I mean, I made like 20 units and never used that thing, since palettes are in PCXs. I just used the pcx you included, and got palette with green shades.

Maybe I don't get it, but why don't you just dump the .pal? When I create unit I do it straight - PCX -> FLICster. No other files.

 

[Kryten]

Originally posted by BeBro
To the file you attached: I cannot open it in flicster, since it says it is no storyboard. I guess it is because you didn´t attach the FXM file too. You need to attach four files.

Sorry for confusing you BeBro, but if I sent you a FLC file, then it would have the ORIGINAL Civ3 created palette, as I am unable to make FLICster accept any new ones.
So I'd like you to try the following (which embryodead appears to done)....

1) open the storyboard that I have in that zip with your own paint program.
(you will see a large green square in frames of the first row)

2) now open your own untouched Civ3 HopliteFortify.flc and export it, but don't open the newly created storyboard.

3) if you then simply 'save' my green storyboard, it will overwrite the newly created one, and you will see a large square in the FLICster clock-face....showing that FLICster has accepted my adapted storyboard.

Now....the big question....does your version of the FLICster clock-face show a GREEN or a BROWN square?

Originally posted by embryodead
Maybe I don't get it, but why don't you just dump the .pal? When I create unit I do it straight - PCX -> FLICster. No other files.

....and so do I.
The problem is that my FLICster 'filters-out' my palette changes, but accepts all my other storyboard changes.
(Can I assume that you used my storyboard, saved it instead of the original storyboard, and now you can see a GREEN square in the FLICster clock-face?)

I think BeBro may be right....maybe it is some obscure setting that I have set in my version of PSP7....
....but that's why I removed it and reloaded it, to reset all settings back to default.
As I said.....no effect.

 

[Kryten]

OOOoooo....I've just had a cunning plan.

Could someone please take that HopliteFortify storyboard from my zip, with the green palette, and use FLICster to turn it into a flc file, then post it here for me?

As my FLICster will not accept my palette changes, I am limited to using already created ones....be they created by players or Civ3.
(It's not a perfect solution....but it's better than a poke in the eye. )

 

[utahjazz7]

In PaintShop Pro, your unit_storyboard.pcx will open with a palette that FLICster assigns to it. Alter that palette until it's the way you want it. Then, save the palette. Then apply the newly saved palette to the unit_storyboard.pcx and save the file. This is all I do to change the palette, and I don't have any problems with FLICster.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Yeah, that's what I do... I always make a palette, save it as whatever palette I need, and then load it back into the Photoshop program.

 

[Kryten]

Sorry utahjazz & Dom Pedro, but I just can't get FLICster to accept my palette changes.

To prove that I have made my new palette correctly, have a look at that small zip bundle that I posted earlier.
Inside there is a Hoplite storyboard with green shades added, and I've also supplied the saved .pal file seperately.

Whenever I select 'Load Palette' in PSP7 and apply this 'Hoplite_with_green.pal' to my current storyboard, I DO see my new green shades....as indeed I should.
However, when I save it, FLICster only shows the storyboard changes, NOT the palette changes.

Here's another screenshot example:-
I have changed the palette to include green shades, and have added a large green square to the storyboard.
Good so far.
But even though I have saved this storyboard (which I have done correctly because the FLICster clock-face now shows a square box), the square is still BROWN....the ORIGINAL Civ3 palette, not the new green one.
And if I export FLICster and close it, the next time I open the HopliteFortify.flc I end up with a storyboard with the large square on it, but in BROWN, because FLICster is still using the original palette.
(I think that FLICster hates me.....)

 

[pdescobar]

Kryten, I don't know if you saw my post before as no response was given. Here's a test for you to check if your problem is the same as the one I mention.

1) Export a PCX from Flicster
2) Change your storyboard in PSP and save it. Don't change the palette, just make a box or something like in your previous tests.
3) Verify that the change appears in Flicster
4) Back in PSP, change the palette and resave the storyboard.
5) Verify that it does *not* appear in Flicster. DO NOT save/export from Flicster yet.
6) Close all windows within Flicster relating to that unit.
7) Reopen the FXM in FLicster.

Now, is the palette in flicster still off or is it ok? For me, that makes it ok and Flicster will create a proper FLC.

 

[utahjazz7]

Are you saving your edited palette as a new .pal file and then applying the new .pal to the storyboard or just altering the palette and then saving the image? That'll make a difference.

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by Kryten
(Can I assume that you used my storyboard, saved it instead of the original storyboard, and now you can see a GREEN square in the FLICster clock-face?)

exactly. though it can't be your PSP fault, since I got your PSP-created file and used it. Can you just do the same:

(with clean directory)
- export hoplite to FXM, close FLICster
- overwrite the PCX with your greenie PCX
- open FXM file in FLICster

again - with no .pal files anywhere.
if you get brown squre then i'm puzzled. there is simply no way flicster can use the old palette, unless you left some pal files there. make sure that no old files are hanging in hoplite/flicster/custom directory. i can not think of anything else, since it works perfectly here.

 

[pdescobar]

Originally posted by embryodead
[...](with clean directory)
- export hoplite to FXM, close FLICster
- overwrite the PCX with your greenie PCX
- open FXM file in FLICster

[...] i can not think of anything else, since it works perfectly here.

The order is important! I hate to sound like a broken record, but note that embryodead opened the FXM in flicster *after* the changes were made to the PCX. You can leave flicster open and have general image changes auto-update but, for me at least, it will *never* update the palette unless the FXM window is closed and reopened. It is a bug in Flicster, at least on my system.