Embassies. What ? Why ? When ?

[Percy]

hello =)
i've been searching the forums but cannot find something about it (except in DemoGames ^^)

what exactly are the advantages of an embassy, apart from being able to spy on (and locate) the capital ?
do you build them ? asap, or when money is less of a crucial issue ? I usually beeline for republic, which means i get writing as my 3rd skill at most (after pottery and alphabet, usually), and i always hesitate in investing the money.

thanks for your help (feel free to redirect me to a thread about the subject if you can find one =) )

 

[Aegis]

The longer you wait to build one, the more it will cost. If you do not have an embassy, you cannot sign right-of-passage treaties, mutual protection pacts or alliances.

There are a few other things that you cannot do, but I cannot think of them. Maybe it's trading communications.

 

[Dachs]

You also can't sign embargos w/o an embassy, but that's mainly overlooked by most people. It's a great way to piss an AI off to get a war, though.

 

[wilbill]

Having an embassy improves that AI's attitude toward you slightly. I start building them as soon as I'm able.

 

[SimpleMonkey]

All of the above. Not having an embassy with a civ will cripple your ability to deal with them on any level ... war, trade, alliances, everything. I build one as soon as I make contact with a new civ, even before I open negotiations with them.

 

[Dachs]

All of the above. Not having an embassy with a civ will cripple your ability to deal with them on any level ... war, trade, alliances, everything. I build one as soon as I make contact with a new civ, even before I open negotiations with them.

Yes, this way the embassy costs less.

Basically, the Embassy is your lifeline. Spies can get you locations of enemy units, cities, maps, and catch other spies. You can order a study on the city to see what it's building, and you can steal tech really quickly. Unless you play on Chieftain, you need Embassies everywhere.

 

[Percy]

well, i have won my second game in regent (but i used the Mayans, so that doesn't really count, now does it ? ^^) and i only used the embassies in my first warlord game. not that i didn't want, but just because i thought "i need the money now, i'll do it later", and then forgot =)
that said, i have noticed that the AI hated me in my last regent game, while i had not did anything bad to them... maybe it was linked, or maybe not. anyway, i'll follow your advice and establish embassies asap from then on =)
if anyone can think of other advantages, or of the precise "formula" for the advantages listed above (exact influence on the cost of trades for example) please let me know =)

 

[Chinghis]

Man, guess I should have read the manual... been wondering how you get to do all that neat stuff like ROPs, alliances, etc. Only been playing for 3 weeks, but, still, that could have come in handy a few times.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I usually build embassies with civs that have a smaller territory than I, so I can get money and kind attitudes off a ROP with them, sometimes even paying for another embassy, and at all times helping trades a good deal. Putting an embassy in a powerful civ is good for commerce with it, but I tend to try and co-operate with less powerful rivals early on, so as to be able to catch up easier with the other civs since I did not feed them up.

 

[Zakharov]

The longer you wait to build one, the more it will cost.

Embassies cost the same amount no matter when you establish them. The cost is decided by the distance between the two capital cities.

 

[Tomoyo]

...and the size of the capital city you are trying to establish an embassy in...

...and the era, I think...

 

[UTBear]

I believe another important reason to establish embassies is to get notified when other civ's go to war or make peace with each other. If you have an embassy with one side, you get notified. I'm usually watching for the chance to jump in on one side or the other.

And of course to make an alliance in that war, you need an embassy.

 

[Aegis]

It's also the size of their nation, and how many units they have in their capital.

Thus, the longer you wait, the bigger their capital, the more units, and the larger their nation will be. ;o)

 

[Zakharov]

Thus, the longer you wait, the bigger their capital, the more units, and the larger their nation will be. ;o)

It doesn't make that much of a difference. An ancient age embassy that might have cost 40g will probably only be around 70g in the Industrial age. Considering that your income will have greatly increased in that time span, you are actually getting a better deal the later you build it.

 

[island007]

The level of the city is a multiplier. 1 for small, 2 for middle, and 3 for metro.

From the war academy:

Cost = dist * level +base +pop.

 

[Dachs]

It doesn't make that much of a difference. An ancient age embassy that might have cost 40g will probably only be around 70g in the Industrial age. Considering that your income will have greatly increased in that time span, you are actually getting a better deal the later you build it.

...just in time for the Industrial Age and the time of lots of MPP's and alliances. But this way you can't take sneak peeks at AI Wonder construction for the first two ages, when Wonders are more important.

 

[Puppeteer]

I believe another important reason to establish embassies is to get notified when other civ's go to war or make peace with each other. If you have an embassy with one side, you get notified.

Definitely! This is the main reason I make embassies as soon as I can afford them, and I usually buy the most expensive ones first unless I can get two or more in one turn otherwise. Whatever the forumula is, they get more expensive as time goes on (unless perhaps they're getting taken over by another civ).

You also can see who they have potential and active trades going with. If they have an active trade you may find a way to break it.

In C3C it's the only way to find out who a civ knows until you can trade communications! Via the foreign advisor screen or the trading screen (miltary alliance against...). Very important for tech trading and reputation management. In the game described below, for the longest time only two civs knew each other before me, so I made sure not to give them techs they could trade to each other; the other civs I could trade whenever convenient at monopoly prices for them. (I was behind in tech for a while, but trading catapulted me forward, and I seem to be able to keep pace with the AI in research now; I must be on monarch, because I was going to make the game either monarch or emporer, but I thought I did emperor.)

In a current C3C random game I'm playing I (as Germany) shared a large island with the Incas on what turned out to be a cross between an archipelago and many small continents small map. I met all civs fairly early and made embassies, and I could tell the Incas didn't know anyone else, and they had a worker working a square next to my territory. I surprise attacked them by taking their worker without warning and proceeded to wipe out their civ before they knew anyone else. No rep hit. The others were all polite and/or gracious with me until I declared on Japan who just made contact with Russia. I had just double-science-slinghotted with Russia into MA (first time I tried that--cool) so I waited until the turn before I finished Feudalism, declared on Japan and then offered Feudalism to Russia for an alliance against Japan next turn. Russia is gracious with me after gifting her into MA and RoP'ing and allying; I doubt she'll turn around against me anytime soon.

I'm not a great player, but information is the key to winning a war, and embassies are the gateway to that information.

Oh, if I'm wanting to build a wonder (a rarity for me), when I build the embassies I take note of the cities' production capability and wonder progress--it's amazing how often the capital city is building a wonder. I can get a decent feel for if it's worth trying to build myself. I avoided the Great Lighthouse on the aforementioned game because too many civs had projects well under way and I was pretty sure TGL would be cascaded before I could build it.

EDIT: When the Incas were down to two cities spaced wide apart I could have taken all their gold and the second city for peace and then attack his capitol as soon as I got my troops there and suffered no rep hit. Would have saved me a few turns healing and moving archers around (no iron or horses on our island), but I didn't do it because I had a couple of elite archers and was fishing for a leader to rush the FP. Didn't get it. But without the embassies I wouldn't have known if I had that option.

EDIT 2: I just realized: Germany and Incas on the same starting island? Does C3C have culturally linked starts off by default? I just recently reinstalled my Civ3's and patches. I'll have to go check that out of curiosity....

 

[rysingsun]

an embassy improves their attitude toward you. this improves your trades with them. for this reason alone you need to get around to making embassies at the latest halfway through the middle ages. i usually make only a few in the ancient age due to the cost which is hard to swallow at that time.

they are also less likely to declare war on you if you keep their attitude up and embassies are one of several ways to do this.

 

[tao]

And a minor addition: establishing an embassy gives you map information on the city tiles. Thus you know where (approximately) the civ is and since you know already part of the map, you can get their map slightly cheaper.

Always establish embassy before buying map, not vice versa!

 

[Theoden]

If they are smaller than me I will always establish an embassy. The gold gained from selling ROPs will definately pay back the establish cost even as soon as the MA.