Embassy to CDZ Land

I say that we should send this right away, rather than waiting for them to build the city. We don't want them to already have the clear upper edge on a stone race when we propose the stone-sharing deal. Also, scratch the sentence about the monument, we don't want
a) to act threatning or
b) encourage them to build a monument as soon as the city is founded, working the stone. If they did that, both cities would have a monument around the same turn, nullifying the Stonehenge advantage.
 
Yeah, the part about a settler race and monuments is definitely something I wouldn't suggest. They beat us here (they've whipped a little too, I think) and that's kinda that, we certainly made some choices that put this at risk. Our third city on the island should be awesome anyway though and hopefully in the long term we haven't lost too much, make up for it with cities elsewhere, Indian side and more maybe.

I would think a polite discussion about Stone and wonders is still all right - I'm still ok with making clear we don't need Pyramids, Great Wall but might like Maoi, and suggest they should check out Maoi if they haven't planned such as well. But we shouldn't come off as greedy for the stone - they probably won't hook it up/have a worker over too soon realistically either.

The interesting problem is that where they settle determines how many cities are on the peninsula. If they settle further south, NOBODY (due to city-closeness rule) could settle another city down there, and so be it. If not, again, I think we could probably make Cape City fit just fine - we'd actually be "stealing" the oasis and one clams tile from them, but really it's fair game and we should win out in culture. Buddhism could help, especially when we get the shrine it should start spreading for free. So I could see us getting that city fifth or something and it still would work.
 
Yeah, I was just trying to think of something to put down. I just feel we should say something to them about the situation, let them know we don't mind them taking that spot. We could also mention the marble hypothesis. (we might find marble on the northern peninsula) Our priority is to make sure any races we have with them don't impact our relationship.
 
I suspect they will settle where they landed. It gets them the stone, the oasis and 2 clams and has the potential to be a production powerhouse.

Of course we could (and should) settle Cape Town to get the whales, oasis and 1 of the clams. This would prevent them from locking up the entire peninsula and we have the culture advantage.

We will explore more north with our warrior in the next few turns and maybe something juicy will be revealed. But I would be ok with Cape Town being our 3rd city (it could work the oasis right away).
 
I'm not a fan of that message- it'll dampen relations with CDZ. To that end, won't Cape Town do the same? I'd rather side with them post-ETTT and a culture-hungry border city this early won't help the situation.
 
Well I want CDZ to stay with us post-ETTT too, and I think this is a strong possibility as we can make Amazons look like the bigger threat.

But who know how the future will unfold. Having a city there for early warning is pretty important. And pushing up against their culture is unavoidable anyways because of the lay of the land.

This initial phase will see us and CDZ scramble for the best land on our shared petal. Both teams will stay friendly and polite and it will come down to who gets settlers to the choice spots the fastest. Meanwhile, both teams will leave Merlot and Mavericks unhindered on their respective petals since those cities can just be taken later by war. I actually hope Mavericks founds a bunch of nice cities we can gobble up later.
 
Barbs will probably found a couple of cities too. ;) It is unfortunate though the juicier land appears between us and CDZ, the MERLOT and Maverick petals are weaker. We have one good clam site easily on our side of Mavericks but yeah, as far as I'm concerned we'll get Mavericks eventually and right now no need for extreme pressure on them.

Actually, I'm fine with Cape Town next, I do expect CDZ to settle in place fwiw, which means the city is possible. I didn't think the team would back that but maybe I guessed wrong - I could certainly go with Cape Town, and the Oasis situation really does make that area more attractive. I would prefer Singularity over Resonance but that's more of a domestic thing.

So how about a new message just talking about technology and exploration, to be sure we are all on the same page still - or do we still want a part about stone (for wonders) just not debating over borders and culture and settler racing?
 
We need to ask these guys if they will sink the Mavericks workboat coming their way.
 
I think we both need to send off another message anyway, and the workboat situation is time-relevent, so I entirely agree.

I'd propose our message should have the aims of:
-NOT discussing Stone/settling right now - that's over, we don't want to be complaining, and it's not a big enough deal to set off diplomatic problems
-General updates about how the ETTT is going and tech progress, so we're all on the same page.
-And of course, discuss the workboat situation. We can handle the MERLOT workboat so for them it's basically denying passage to Mavericks 10+ turns down the line (by the way, their CULTURE should be able to handle Mavericks by that time I'm thinking, so the onus would be on Mavericks to DoW if they wanted through - all CDZ has to do is not open borders).

So here's a newer/updated message draft for approval:
Dear Robi and citizens of CDZ,

We are glad to hear you are doing well, it's been a little while since we've had much to discuss but only because these have been peaceful and prosperous times. Thanks for letting us know about Metal Casting. Our people continue our growth, technological discoveries, and settlement as well, and we can't say we are anything but pleased with how advanced we and our allies are becoming. We are closing in on Calendar, as agreed with our mutual allies, and of course you too are welcome to request it any time as soon as we are done - it's a vital tech with all the plantation resources we all have. We think the current situation otherwise involves AMAZONs teching Monarchy and Sirius might have Currency in the near future, that is all good news as long as we're on the same page.

In other matters, while we do not believe this has ever been officially established as part of our alliance, we feel it couldn't hurt to inform you what we know of world wonders and religions moving forward - namely, the Q are rather happy where we stand, and don't intend to compete with our allies, if you are after wonders like The Pyramids or Colossus or perhaps a more interesting choice from the current era. We can't guarantee you won't have competition from civilizations like the Mavericks (India) though, so just a heads up.

Meanwhile, there's a final concern that's come to our attention and is perhaps most urgent right now, if we could do justice in explaining it, as it requires cooperation from all of us so we don't move forward doing something recklessly. Namely, we feel it's in the interests of the members of the ETTT to hinder the exploration and contact between the MERLOT and Maverick civilizations. We intend to deny a MERLOT workboat passage past our borders, a galley available if necessary, and we believe that Sirius will be blocking off another boat around the northern passage. However, these efforts come to naught if we can't block out all boats from both of the civilizations - and Mavericks have another workboat coming around too. We would rather not see anyone unnecessarily embroiled in war - we wouldn't want to stomach war with Mavericks right now and MERLOT as your neighbors you probably do not want to overly anger, the same goes for our mutual allies I think. However we are alright keeping MERLOT at bay from going too far, but we do need your help if we intend to block off the Maverick boat - when it gets around to your borders it would be great if you could keep them closed and not let them through, thus they won't reach MERLOT's waters either.

Something for your consideration - as always, if there is much to discuss, we welcome your envoys when you see fit. But on the particular matter of what to do about MERLOT/Maverick workboats, it would be great to have a quicker response so we can be sure of our final decisions (feel free to coordinate with AMAZONs too, we are coordinating with them and Sirius as they have enemy boats up north to deal with too).

Ambassador Earthling

Message is a draft and not sent yet of course, any critiques more than welcome, know I tend to make things lengthy. Also, we're probably hoping to get some coordination with our Sirius embassy and so on about the workboat situation.
 
looks good to me. Might put in that we need to know before this turn is up whether they will kill the Mav boat or not. If they won't then there we really need to consider if killing the Merlot boat is worth it.

To keep things simple we say something like: "The basic concept is that you and the Amazons block or kill any Maverick boats while Sirius and Quatronia take out any Merlot vessels."
 
I think cav_scout's summary is really good, and yeah, we need to get to the point more directly.

Remember though that it's not this turn we're actually killing the MERLOT workboat - it does mean we need to send a "warning" message though, but we've got 2-3 to work this out with Sirius and CDZ if needed. Though of course I agree it would look stupid for us to be the only ones declaring war to kill a workboat, so we need a decision one way or another - I don't think it's worth it for us to take out Mavericks' workboat, it will just lead to too much hostility/make us worry too much about military situations.
 
Right, if there aren't any other concerns, and feel free to suggest any edits, I think we're ready to send in the next 12 hours or so/next approval we get from the team. I'd probably change this quoted section including cav_scout's good suggestion

We intend to deny a MERLOT workboat passage past our borders, a galley available when necessary, and we believe that Sirius will be blocking off another boat around the northern passage. However, these efforts come to naught if we can't block out all boats from both of the civilizations - and Mavericks have another workboat coming around too. We would rather not see anyone unnecessarily embroiled in war - the same goes for our mutual allies I think. We are all right keeping MERLOT at bay from going too far, but we do need your help if we intend to block off the Maverick boat - when it gets around to your borders it would be great if you could keep them closed and not let them through, thus they won't reach MERLOT's waters either. The basic concept is that you and the Amazons block or kill any Maverick boats while Sirius and Quatronia take out any Merlot vessels.

message continues...

Also should probably have a better signature, know I didn't put one at the end of the last message...I know I haven't personally been sending every message (and I hasten to say, not that I mind from the team) but it's still good in my mind to represent our team unity. So I'd have something slightly more elaborate like

Sincerely,
Ambassador Earthling
Team Quatronia

Again, I can check in again and send this right away tomorrow morning, all the input and thoughts so far were great (I know the discussion about settling/stone was important, now anyway we shouldn't be getting into any trouble against CDZ though). But any more input is great as always, thanks.
 
I think the proposed message kinda beats around the bush too much. We need to be very direct and clear about what we are asking them to do. I'm sure they will see the value of preventing contact.
 
Well, it's not been sent yet (or, I'll check, nothing new on the team email). So what's a shorter and quicker revision that we want then? I'll approve anything on the same lines (as in, getting the same points across, tech, and the workboat situation, but NOT arguing/discussing about where we and they are settling land) anyway but always want to be sure the team knows what we're sending.
 
A more succint version. We need to send something soon!

Dear Robi and citizens of CDZ,

We are glad to hear you are doing well. We haven't had much to discuss in a while but only because these have been peaceful and prosperous times.

Thanks for letting us know about Metal Casting. Our people continue our growth, technological discoveries and settlement as well. We are very pleased with how advanced the ETTT membership is becoming. We are closing in on Calendar and will be starting Compass after that.

In other matters, while we do not believe this has ever been officially established as part of our alliance, we feel it couldn't hurt to inform you what we know of world wonders and religions moving forward. Namely, the Q are rather happy where we stand and don't intend to compete with our allies. We can't guarantee you won't have competition from civilizations like the Mavericks though (they claim to be going after The Pyramids), so just a heads up.

Meanwhile, there's a final concern that's come to our attention. Merlot and Mavs both have explorer workboats in our waters and they will meet each other shortly. We think it's important to prevent this from happening and keep them isolated from each other. So we are going to DoW against Merlot and sink their boat.

We will let the Mavs boat pass a few turns later (without knowing what we did) and they will move on to your waters. We are hoping you will deny them passage. If you don't have open borders with them then they would have to DoW to pass. Then your galley could take them out for forcing your borders.

Anyways, we hope you agree that it's in the interests of the members of the ETTT to hinder the exploration and contact between the Merlot and Maverick civilizations. We believe that Sirius will be blocking off another boat around the northern passage. If you and Amazons stop any Mav boats while Sirius and Quatronia stop any Merlot boats we can all avoid war with our direct neighbors for the time being.

Earthling
Ambassador
Team Quatronia
 
This sounds fine, and yes, I'm ok with sending it quickly. Sorry we didn't get something sent earlier but without revisions/input from everyone didn't want to rush it. Anyway, I approve of this condensing of the message too and since we did agree on the general purpose, it's definitely time to get this all through to CDZ.
 
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