Embassy to The Mavericks

[Sommerswerd]

I meant to say "One true Omnipotent Goddess" to match it up with the preceding sentence... but the rest of the letter seems great to me.

The Ultimate Warrior stuff won's seem too wierd, as at least some of them will be familiar with that already from the UN announcements of our Pitboss winners. The main point of it was to be lighthearted and take a more humorous tone... Why would we do this?

Because they are experienced enough to know that in a game like this, when a team you have just met is cracking jokes, they don't need you. They already have allies, and you can either get on the boat, or be left behind... they don't care. That's why they are cracking jokes... because they are at ease. I was hoping it would add to the high pressure situation and increase our leverage. But if you think it is too heavy handed then we should just leave it out.

 

[nabaxo]

I say we go with Sommers suggestion. Not only because of the reasons he said, but we have a reputation to keep. It makes the other teams think that we're a rookie team or something, which is not a bad thing...

Oh and, we also need our latest Ultimate Warrior decide on which goddess!

 

[SilentConfusion]

I say we go with Sommers suggestion. Not only because of the reasons he said, but we have a reputation to keep. It makes the other teams think that we're a rookie team or something, which is not a bad thing...

Oh and, we also need our latest Ultimate Warrior decide on which goddess!

Ok. I'm warming to the idea. Maybe I'm just upset because my time as latest Ultimate Warrior was so short lived.

 

[nabaxo]

How about you choose which one for two weeks or something for your victory and then the latest chooses his?

 

[SilentConfusion]

How about you choose which one for two weeks or something for your victory and then the latest chooses his?

I'm just kidding. I pass that honor onto Calis. I can always just win the next Pitboss game we start. But seriously I will add it back in.

 

[Calis]

I have to admit that I have no idea what you guys are relating to. Except that I won the latest PTB game do to my score lead, I do not understand you.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Have we sent the message to Mavericks yet? If so, what about PM's? I would like to PM obsolete and tell him that we are waiting to hear either a response or confirmation from them that they got the message before ending the turn.

 

[SilentConfusion]

Have we sent the message to Mavericks yet? If so, what about PM's? I would like to PM obsolete and tell him that we are waiting to hear either a response or confirmation from them that they got the message before ending the turn.

I will send it right now.

 

[SilentConfusion]

This final draft was sent to the Mavericks with just under 6 hours remaining on the clock. I made the Omnipotent Goddess change that Sommerswerd mentioned and I added the Ultimate Warrior bit back in, but I added a following sentence which I feel made it more clear that we were speaking in jest. I also made "afterall" "after all" since it should really be two words.

Greetings to the Mavericks,

Our intrepid explorer, Jenny, has spotted your island domain and when the news made its way back to the AMAZON homeland, enthusiastic celebration and displays of AMAZON prowess broke out in the streets. After recovering, our diplomatic offices has worked tirelessly to get out this greeting to you.

We are happy to meet the free-thinking Mavericks. We have heard rumors of a great Oracle that has been erected in your lands for the divining of the will of the gods and that it has inspired your researchers in their studies. We are further impressed by your religious spirit in founding Hinduism. The gods play a special role in AMAZON society so we are pleased to meet kindred spirits.

The people of The AMAZON respect the Mavericks, not only because of their obvious achievements even at such an early date, but also because we have heard of the many formidable and talented people who label themselves Mavericks. We hope that we can work with the Mavericks and we hope that our relationship will be a mutually beneficial one.

Just as we heard rumors of your many wondrous and religious accomplishments, you have undoubtedly heard rumors that we have been trading knowledge with other teams. We want to tell you that we are still looking for trustworthy people with whom to build a strong and profitable relationship.

The AMAZON are impressed with your breadth of knowledge, particularly your mastery of Temple Building (PH), your skill at crafting Bronze Statues (MC) and your studies into the existence of one supreme Goddess (Monotheism). The last one in particular intrigues us... we are after all an Alliance of Omnipotent Nations. Accordingly we too are currently searching for the knowledge of which of our many Goddesses is the One True Omnipotent Goddess. We have narrowed it down to Hera, Aphrodite, Athena, Persephone, Artemis and Hippolyte...

Of course our Princess Diana has adoring fans who insist she is the living incarnation of a Goddess... and there are also a few Zealots who believe our Matron Saint Zenobia was the reincarnation of a Goddess, but we have considerably winnowed the field, and Monotheism will be just the boost we need to settle this debate once and for all. That is until the next Ultimate AMAZON Warrior is crowned. By rule, our Ultimate Warrior is allowed to name the Goddess that all must worship until the next Ultimate Warrior is crowned. Needless to say this makes some of the goddesses very interested in the outcome of these competitions which tends to make them interesting.

We are interested to know whether the Mavericks wish to discuss an agreement whereby their vast accumulated knowledge would be shared with The AMAZON? Our people are anxious to meet the scholars of the Mavericks and share discoveries.

We are willing to share information with you in the spirit of cooperation. Our explorers have noticed that the Great Mapmaker who made us all has a great love of symmetry and that our islands appear to be arranged around a star-shaped landmass. Our explorers have also found a large amount of clams around the edge of each arm of the star and a few Whales. It seems that each civilization has an island which has a number of unique resources. The AMAZON has been blessed with an abundance of Sheep and Silver and also have some sources of Deer and Fur. What resources has the Great Mapmaker seen fit to bestow upon you?

We look forward to receiving your reply.

Sincerely,
SilentConfusion, AMAZON diplomat

 

[SilentConfusion]

Go ahead and send a PM to obsolete.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Sent this PM to obsolete and DMOC:

Greetings to you,

We sent a message to your gmail account. We have been holding up the turn waiting to make contact with you.

We understand you may need more time to respond, but please confirm that you at least got our message, so we know that we sent it to the right address.

Thanks so much,

Sommerswerd

EDIT: Got this reply from obsolete...

Well that is funny, I was wondering why you guys were holding up the turn! I'll tell the diplo guy to hurry up and check your e-mail.

 

[SilentConfusion]

Just got this message from the Mavericks:

Greetings Team AMAZON,

We welcome the opportunity to exchange information with any friendly nation we may encounter. It appears you have already acquired the knowledge of Monotheism at the time of this writing, so congratulations on your discovery.

We propose an exchange of information to be executed on the current turn.

In exchange for Priesthood, would you be willing to offer Writing, as well expedite our discovery of Sailing? Such a gesture of goodwill would go a long way in instilling trust in the Maverick people.

As a sign of goodwill, we would like to offer you the right to enter our territory and trade with our merchants.

We are also curious what your current and planned research is, so that we can perhaps work together on our discoveries.

TheMike,
Team Mavericks Diplomat

 

[SilentConfusion]

Hmmm... this isn't exactly the tone I was expecting.

Not only does it not say much, they want us to buy their trust with that lopsided deal. There is no way we would consider such a trade, even if we weren't in a Tech Alliance.

They also didn't answer our explicitly asked question about their resources after telling them ours. Not a good sign.

It is possible that they are overestimating the value of having Metal Casting, because they don't suspect that we've formed a Tech Alliance. I'm pretty sure if they knew we were looking for our last exclusive tech trading member they'd have acted differently.

They don't have Sailing yet. They're the last team to get it. They at least didn't send a work boat our way. I think they've made a mistake not prioritizing exploration. They would have had good leverage to start a Trade Alliance of their own if they had met people first. Wonders and religions are great, but if everyone's against you you can have all the wonders and religions in the game and you'll still die. The "two work boat wonder" is far cheaper (60h) than the Oracle (150h), is available sooner (Fishing instead of Priesthood), and the beaker payoff it has already given us is more than they got with Metal Casting (we got Wheel, Meditation, Pottery, Writing, Alphabet) and our wonder keeps on giving.

They don't have Sailing yet. If Sirius settles the Mavs copper source before the Mavs can get a galley and settler there, the Mavs could have a hard time of ever settling that landmass.

 

[nabaxo]

Wow...That was the total opposite of the welcome we got from the other teams. Even Merlot did a 360 and was extremely eager to join.

See if I understand this correctly, they want us to give them a lot of stuff and don't want to give MC in return? Do they even realize what we have in tech?

Before this game I didn't really know the power of the demographics screen. But now I know that pretty much all the teams are getting loads of information out of it, but not the Mavericks.

Maybe we can get MC out of them before kicking them to the curb. Besides that, I say we forget about them and pick a team that actually wants us as allies.

(I know I'll eat my words after all this ).

 

[SilentConfusion]

Wow...That was the total opposite of the welcome we got from the other teams. Even Merlot did a 360 and was extremely eager to join.

See if I understand this correctly, they want us to give them a lot of stuff and don't want to give MC in return? Do they even realize what we have in tech?

Before this game I didn't really know the power of the demographics screen. But now I know that pretty much all the teams are getting loads of information out of it, but not the Mavericks.

Maybe we can get MC out of them before kicking them to the curb. Besides that, I say we forget about them and pick a team that actually wants us as allies.

(I know I'll eat my words after all this ).

Just a minor correction. For them to see what we have, they wouldn't look at the demographics screen. The Demo Screen has actually very little that tells about techs. Score changes though, should have told them that we've been trading. Plus we told them, and finally, since we have Alphabet, no secrets have to be divined to tell what techs we have. They can just pull up a diplo window with us or look at the F4 Tech screen.

I don't think they weren't aware of what we had. I think they were just overestimating their own bargaining power.

When I logged in to look at the map. I found this screen blocking my way:

That's even more presumptuous on their part, and bothers me a bit. We have given them no idea that we like their proposed trade and this way if our turn-player or whoever logs in and hits the wrong button they get our techs without us having agreed to it. I don't like that at all. If we had said that we might be interested in their deal, then I can see it, but I am put off by this and their attitude in their letter. And the phrase, "Good Luck our new Ally," sounds like they just assume we want them as our ally. Unless Quatronia has told them something that they shouldn't have without contacting us (I did notice that Quatronia and Mavs have OBs. I think the Mavs know that OBs are useless right now and are offering them around.) the Mavericks are being way too presumptuous in my opinion. My perception was that the Mavs were the last person Quatronia wanted to be allied with, so I doubt Q has told them about our alliance. I think it's just them assuming we'd want to be their ally or else them trying to convince us by forcefulness that we should be allies. Either is not a good idea in my book.

I canceled that deal, since I had to get to the game. I wasn't about to accept it. If as a team we decide to take it (I don't think we will and I will be completely against it the whole way) we can offer it to them again. But I had to be careful because if I had hit the wrong button they would have gotten our techs for free.

The tech trade they ask for would have them giving us Priesthood (89) while we give them Writing (179) and Sailing (149). They say they've already teched part of Sailing, but that doesn't make it any better. At least when Sirius wanted to trade beakers they offered a fair trade. I just can't understand how they can think that we would take that deal. And it makes me a little angry that they'd offer that, honestly.

I won't rule out working with them if we need them, but now I'm really hoping we can get CDZ. Looks like we'll have to send them a letter telling them we're disappointed just as we did with Merlot, although I'm much more disappointed by these guys.

 

[nabaxo]

I wonder if these guys are "offering" such "gestures of good will" towards the other teams?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Hmmm... this isn't exactly the tone I was expecting.

Not only does it not say much, they want us to buy their trust with that lopsided deal. There is no way we would consider such a trade, even if we weren't in a Tech Alliance.

Agreed. Although... rather than wait to send an indignant letter, we should send them a quick PM that we have to discuss tech trades with the team before accepting them in game, and we are sorry we did not accept their offer.

I know it sucks to have to be nice to someone who has insulted you, but we are not yet ABSOLUTELY sure that we won't have them as the 4th ally... we just hurt ourselves by returning rudeness for rudeness...

In the last game, team Cav HATED team Kaz, because we were so arrogant, pushy, rude etc., but they never showed it, which kept the alliance intact. If they had been as rude as us, the alliance would have crumbled. Saturn on the other hand returned our attitude with more attitude and all it got them was a big fat 'L.'

They also didn't answer our explicitly asked question about their resources after telling them ours. Not a good sign.

Yeah that's pretty weak

It is possible that they are overestimating the value of having Metal Casting

I agree, they think that they have leverage because of MC but they will re-think that in 2 turns when we get Priesthood.

They don't have Sailing yet. They're the last team to get it. They at least didn't send a work boat our way. I think they've made a mistake not prioritizing exploration. The "two work boat wonder" is far cheaper... is available sooner... and our wonder keeps on giving.

The "Two Workboat Wonder"(2wbW)... That's AWESOME I think you may have coined a new Civ Demogame catch-phrase... Your analysis of the benefits of the 2wbW is certainly correct.

An important point, is that since they don't have Sailing, they dont have Triremes, which means we can keep them from sending out workboats if we want, and they have no way of defending them. They really should have gotten Sailing by now for that reason alone.

Wow...That was the total opposite of the welcome we got from the other teams. Even Merlot did a 360 and was extremely eager to join.

See if I understand this correctly, they want us to give them a lot of stuff and don't want to give MC in return? Do they even realize what we have in tech?

I agree, and I think that in 2 turns when we get PH, their attitude may change a little, when they start to realize we dont need their techs.

That's even more presumptuous on their part, and bothers me a bit... it makes me a little angry that they'd offer that, honestly.

Looks like we'll have to send them a letter telling them we're disappointed just as we did with Merlot, although I'm much more disappointed by these guys.

I agree with this. We should put them on the defensive. TBH I think that their letter, coupled with their actions reflected a little bit more desperation than arrogance. They are trying to hard-sell us on the idea of us being allies because they know they are in danger of being left out. The correct play for them would be to offer MC and ask for a tech Alliance... but its easy for me to armchair quarterback from outside their team.

As far as the lopsided trade offer goes, I think that they are following the same logic that LP used when Saturn encountered the CavKaz alliance. He wanted a generous gifitng of tech to "demonstrate our good will"... he didnt get exactly what he wanted, and so ultimately Saturn joined SANCTA instead.

They want Sailing for Triremes and Writing so that they can tech Alpha themselves. No way we should give them either. Metal Casting is not worth giving them either of those advantages IMO. If they are not in the ETTT, then we should just blockade them.

 

[Sommerswerd]

BTW, before reading the new diplo from Mavs, I got two PMs from obsolete:

Alright, we are discussing it with the diplo guy now. Thanks btw for pvming me, and sorry we missed you last turn, but that's the problem when you log in near the end, you snooze you lose

I'm glad though you took pro-active action. This is opposite of Hannibal, who while they desperately want to be our allies, it seems they have a few too many rookies in their dept. For example, after emailing for days we get back nothing from them. Only time we really got to discuss something was when their turn-player messaged me from IN GAME and we had to do it that way. Obviously some people need to chose better assignments for who handles their diplo emails.

I guarantee you we won't act that same way. We value discussion and diplo as one of the top issues. I will tell you it is damn well frustrating to have an ally who doesn't put discussions as one of their top priorities. Considering we have some really early big-guns like Metal Casting, one would find it surprising they were not jumping at the opportunity each turn to secure deals with us? This is rather puzzling.

We will send our next WB out your way to secure trade-routes to our future ally. I'm just not sure if your last movement was from Top Down, or Right to Left?

Other than that, does it look like Raggy is near by to snipe off a few of your cities in the near future? Someone is going to get romped over by him down the road, and so far I can tell you it's not going to be us. But if he gets too big that is definitely bad news for us.

2nd PM... 3 hours later:

Alright, we have already initiated the next trade-deal, as per diplo response for when you log back in this turn.

Let us know if Hannibal is giving you any friction, because we definitely don't want this type of behaviour in our ally-block.

P.S. Tell MeInTheTeam that Snaaty & Obsolete said "Hello old friend."

I have many comments about these PMs. especially in light of their official letter, but I have talked enough for one post. They do seem desperate to form an alliance... as well they should be One last thing I want to mention is that there is ALOT of phishing in that first PM and NONE of those questions should be responded to before some careful thought and discussion. There is absolutely NO rush to get back to these guys... except maybe a PM about rejecting the tech trade so they don't offer it again.

If you are still fuming at them SilCon, I can send them the PM.

 

[leonisgod]

I like it when Silcon gets angry. I like to pretend he's a sleeping juggernaut just waiting to kill something....Silcon SMASH!

 

[SilentConfusion]

Agreed. Although... rather than wait to send an indignant letter, we should send them a quick PM that we have to discuss tech trades with the team before accepting them in game, and we are sorry we did not accept their offer.

I know it sucks to have to be nice to someone who has insulted you, but we are not yet ABSOLUTELY sure that we won't have them as the 4th ally... we just hurt ourselves by returning rudeness for rudeness...

In the last game, team Cav HATED team Kaz, because we were so arrogant, pushy, rude etc., but they never showed it, which kept the alliance intact. If they had been as rude as us, the alliance would have crumbled. Saturn on the other hand returned our attitude with more attitude and all it got them was a big fat 'L.'

I agree. We can't let personal feelings make us play incorrectly. You are right to seek to cut off this kind of thing.

I agree, they think that they have leverage because of MC but they will re-think that in 2 turns when we get Priesthood.

Good point. They will be more desperate in 2 turns when we get it and the only thing they have left is Metal Casting.

An important point, is that since they don't have Sailing, they dont have Triremes, which means we can keep them from sending out workboats if we want, and they have no way of defending them. They really should have gotten Sailing by now for that reason alone.

I think they will have Sailing before too long, so they'll only be without triremes for a little bit. I think they may not build triremes until we start sinking their boats. They will probably want to spend their hammers in another direction.

As far as the lopsided trade offer goes, I think that they are following the same logic that LP used when Saturn encountered the CavKaz alliance. He wanted a generous gifitng of tech to "demonstrate our good will"... he didnt get exactly what he wanted, and so ultimately Saturn joined SANCTA instead.

I didn't know about this from the past game, but to me that seems obviously a bad strategy. When tech trading is so valuable, people should be giving things to participate not asking for things. You're just asking to be left out in favor of others who value the power of tech trading more.

I have many comments about these PMs. especially in light of their official letter, but I have talked enough for one post. They do seem desperate to form an alliance... as well they should be One last thing I want to mention is that there is ALOT of phishing in that first PM and NONE of those questions should be responded to before some careful thought and discussion. There is absolutely NO rush to get back to these guys... except maybe a PM about rejecting the tech trade so they don't offer it again.

If you are still fuming at them SilCon, I can send them the PM.

I can draft the response shortly, but if you want to feel free to send them a PM. I think a PM from you would go over well. They don't know me and this is a delicate issue.

I like it when Silcon gets angry. I like to pretend he's a sleeping juggernaut just waiting to kill something....Silcon SMASH!

Just wait until we have our alliance set and we're able to unleash our full power on whoever is left out! You can pretend it if you wish, but... no need to pretend.