Embassy to The Mavericks

[Sommerswerd]

Sent this reply PM to obsolete:

Hi obsolete,

Thanks for your reply. Just an FYI that we have to talk about any tech trades with the team before anyone can log-in and accept/offer them in game... So we just went ahead and exited out of the diplomacy screen without accepting the trade. Sorry about that.

But we will be talking about it within the team and getting back to you soon to let you know what we think about trades.

Sommerswerd

 

[SilentConfusion]

Thanks for sending that Sommerswerd.

 

[damnrunner]

I am totally confused where we are with our allies right now - aren't we supposed to accept all trades with allies - weren't we upset with another team for doing the same thing?

 

[SilentConfusion]

I am totally confused where we are with our allies right now - aren't we supposed to accept all trades with allies - weren't we upset with another team for doing the same thing?

Yes, Q did this to us, but then they were in the ETTT, our Alliance. The Mavs are not yet and may not ever be in our Alliance. We actually could trade with them due to the terms of the ETTT, but by not telling them this we can perhaps keep them in the dark about the Alliance, until we need them to join or we already have our 4th member.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I am totally confused where we are with our allies right now - aren't we supposed to accept all trades with allies - weren't we upset with another team for doing the same thing?

I thought I would just list our alliance situation in case anyone else was confused too.

Our Allies (as of turn 55)
Sirius
Quatronia

Non-Allies (as of Turn 55)
Mavericks
Merlot
CDZ

That is why we rejected the trade with Mavericks... they are Non-Allies

Just got a reply PM from obsolete:

I understand. Just don't take TOO long or we will be forced to take others up on the deals instead.

Funny... since no one has Alpha besides the ETTT If we take TOO long we will already have PH.

 

[SilentConfusion]

Got this message from KingMorgan of the Mavericks:

Hey,

I see our teams have met in the MTDG 2.

I'd like to have chat about it if you willing, informal shooting the breeze.

You use MSN or Gmail chat? MSN = 7777@ talk21.com

or Elkingmorgan@ gmail.com


I'll be around after the football

Morgan

 

[SilentConfusion]

If people are not opposed to IM contact with Mavericks right now, I'd want to figure out what kind of message we want to convey to them and what should not be said.

They want to get information from us because they haven't sent boats out. We should only give them information that we want them to have. Or is it best to be Silent and leave them Confused?

In an IM setting they will be asking point blank questions to put me on the spot. This is why I want to talk about what we want them to think so all answers can be phrased toward that end. Even "No comment" or "I can't say" is an answer.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Since you are the team Diplomat, you set the team's policy, for IM, and diplo in general, so I trust your judgment on the IMing issue.

 

[SilentConfusion]

Received this letter from the Mavericks:

Subject: Hello from the Mavericks

Greetings Team AMAZON,

We wanted to reach out and say hello to our neighbors.

Are there any questions that you may have for us? Are there any concerns that you feel we should address for you? Is there anything that we might be able to do to help the AMAZON people?

Also, have you had any trouble communicating with Team Quatronia? We have been unable to get a response from them for some time.

Please let us know.

Thanks!

TheMike
Mavericks Diplomat

 

[damnrunner]

I suggest giving them very wrong info about the map layout. If they have no WBs they can't confirm this.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I say ignore them, they are no use to us, and pose no threat to us AFAICT. They are dead meat as soon as we have Metal Casting, because then they wont even be able to escort workboats anywhere. They should be at war with both Mavs and Quatronia very soon.

FYI - Researching the uses of espionage and the EE I cam across something interesting...

Apparently, obsolete is a famous Wonderspammer and AFAICT the inventor and principal proponent of the WE/SSE or "Wonder Economy." I had never heard of such a thing before, but basically it consists of getting the Pyramids, the Parthenon(and usually the GW) and then trying to get all the Wonders in your capital and spamming Great People, either to use for their benefits, or (usually) to settle them in you capital to make a Supercharged capital (hence the "SSE", for Settled Specialist Economy. You run Bureaucracy and Representation civics for the whole game.

Now Im thinking that with obsolete at the helm, the Mavs are almost certainly headed for Pyramids, as it is a key component of the "WE/SSE". Some of the favorable conditions for the WE/SSE are: PHI leader, IND leader, An isolated capital that is rich in resources, particularly food and production resources, Island starts, Peaceful neighbors... any of this sound familiar?

One thing to remember, is if they are running the WE/SSE, then their capital will be a crown jewel for whoever captures it (which will either be Sirius of Quatronia, not us). For this reason we should remember to insist that the Mavericks capital be razed if captured. Also if they are wonderspamming, they might be trying for GW on 'Bora' (as Sirius called South Andromeda IIRC).

Anyway, according to the "WE/SSE" guides that I found, the two worst leader traits for the WE/SSE are CHA and IMP so I guess that's out...

Ill try to find a link to one of the threads I read that was discussing the WE/SSE

 

[damnrunner]

Great research! I think it is a horrible idea for a MP game though. Glorious wonder cities invite other teams to wipe you out.

You don't get to keep settled Great people in a captured city do you? If not, capturing the city will be much less beneficial. Though the base wonders will still be damn useful-and I don't think any team will give up razing the city. That likely may be the point when our alliance system breaks down.

Just a thought but maybe we can use capturing the city this as a diplomatic point to get greater land concessions out of Sirius on Jenniland? Or maybe to allow us to control the map center point. The center would be an amazing place to settle a GA.

 

[SilentConfusion]

Great research! I think it is a horrible idea for a MP game though. Glorious wonder cities invite other teams to wipe you out.

You don't get to keep settled Great people in a captured city do you? If not, capturing the city will be much less beneficial. Though the base wonders will still be damn useful-and I don't think any team will give up razing the city. That likely may be the point when our alliance system breaks down.

Just a thought but maybe we can use capturing the city this as a diplomatic point to get greater land concessions out of Sirius on Jenniland? Or maybe to allow us to control the map center point. The center would be an amazing place to settle a GA.

I'm pretty sure that the city keeps Settled GP. I know with 100% certainty that Settled Great Generals stay because I just captured a city with one of those in SP. As far as I know all Settled GP would stay, but this can be tested if we need to.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I can confirm that ALL settled Great People stay when a city is captured.

We just spotted a Maverick workboat trying to sneak out the back door

We should infom Quatronia about this right away to make absolutely sure that it does not meet up with the Merlot workboat. That would be a major setback for the alliance.

Spoiler :

 

[damnrunner]

That is bad then about the Great People.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Just got an in-game message from obsolete complaining that we were ignoring them, and asking how long we were planning on ignoring them... Then he exited the game after posting the in-game message "good luck."

So it seems like maybe the Mavs are starting to get annoyed with us so maybe we could send them a note like this:

Our Captain, Sommerswerd recently recieved an in-game message from obsolete, asking why we were ignoring the Mavericks. We apologize if we gave that impression, as this was not our intent.

In a previous message to us, you proposed a technology trade that included Priesthood and Monotheism. We have not responded specifically to that trade proposal, because, as you have no doubt noticed, that trade is no longer beneficial to The AMAZON. We did not mean to offend your people by not sending you an official communique stating our intentions regarding these technologies. In our future dealings, we will endeavor to more quickly inform you of our reaction to any agreements you suggest.

We were somewhat puzzled by your most recent communique, and we feel that the most productive way for us to respond would be to rephrase some of your questions. More specifically... Is there any new useful information that you have learned about our rival civilizations, or the map we inhabit that you can share with us? Have you entered into any agreements with any of our rival civilizations? Is there any useful new information about the Maverick Empire that you wish to share with us? What goals do you have for the relationship between our nations? What steps or tokens of goodwill might the Mavericks willing to make in order to move relations between our nations forward? Is there anything that you feel willing to do in order to help The AMAZON? If so, we are anxious to hear from you.

Finally, we have had no trouble whatsoever in communicating with Team Quatronia. However, from our initial meeting, we have been very open, and forthcoming in our exchanges of information with them, as we were with you. Additionally, we have endeavored to be very generous in our trade agreements with them.

My goal in communicating with the Mavs would be to see if they will give away any useful info, like their plans for new cities, resource locations etc. I would also like to see if we can get them to tell us what they are currently teching, and/or what tech path they are planning to pursue.

Also, its a longshot, but maybe they are desperate enough to gift us Metal Casting as a "token of goodwill," or maybe in exchange for a NAP and Open Borders... something like that. Obviously, we wont give them any tech, but we may be able to exploit their position as odd-man-out. It may be that they finally realize that Metal Casting is the last barganing chip they have left, and they better get something out of it, before it becomes just as useless to them as Priesthood and Monotheism.

Mavs don't seem to have much to offer us unless they want to give us Metal Casting (unlikely) or they have new information to share (also unlikely, since they have not placed any priority on exploration, and what appears to be their first exploring workboat is running neck-and-neck with Jenny). However, we could keep the dialogue with them open just in case... who knows? Maybe one of our allies will commit an early backstab or something, or maybe they will slip and give away some critical piece of info...

Or we could just continue ignoring them...

 

[SilentConfusion]

I think we should send that message like that. If there are no other suggestions I would like to send out that message. I agree about keeping possibilities open. If Q sink their work boat, they will really feel isolated with us as the only ones to talk to. We will not trade with them, but as you say if we lose someone from our alliance we can keep options open with them.

 

[leonisgod]

That sounds like the right mix of kindness and a slight slap in the face to wake them up to their actual position.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Thinking about all the whipping Mavs have been doing, maybe they have been whipping forges to rush and get Colossus before anyone else gets MC.: confused:

 

[damnrunner]

I think that is a great note to send.

Whipping forges may make sense - other thoughts could be settlers or libraries. Every team is now faced with a huge need to settle their home islands asap (best land in game) and claim a piece of the mainland. That requires a lot of settlers. If Sommers is right about them trying to build a super GP city having an early library for an academy will be very important.