homegrown
Missionary of Sorenism
Musicians and Writers are set on creation. Scientists and engineers you can save.
Emperor Challenge (?) #13 - Shoshone Pangaea
- Thread starter Tinker
- Start date
Arachnofiend
Perturbed Pugilist
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Writers are on the same formula as scientists, just with culture instead of science. So yes, you can save them.
joshua43214
King
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lack of RA's gimps Emperor games. You have to hard tech the last two eras
Cause you do not want to pay for or you can not get DoFs?
Arachnofiend
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Because the Emperor AI often times does not have the money to pay for them.
ofc he does not, but you can give him money. And that is the point of the question - why they dont do it. I want to learn.
Arachnofiend
Perturbed Pugilist
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ofc he does not, but you can give him money. And that is the point of the question - why they dont do it. I want to learn.
There's also the fact that the AI techs much slower than you do. I usually find myself an era ahead of my allies by the Modern Era at the latest, which of course makes my RA's less valuable and absurdly expensive. I'd rather just rush buy Research Labs at that point.
joshua43214
King
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ofc he does not, but you can give him money. And that is the point of the question - why they dont do it. I want to learn.
They are usually too broke to make the RA in the first place, so you have to lend them gold. Then you have to pony up 200g to sign the agreement, so you need ~650g to sign a single RA
When I play Emperor, I am lucky to sign 4 RA's total, usually it is 1 or 2.
If you feed all your TR's into your closest neighbor, you can drag them along tech wise and sign 3 in a row with them provided you keep a DoF. But I doubt it is really worth it.
dutchengineer
Chieftain
Turn 204 Science victory
Comments to my game:
- OP map (did read the thread and used that info to my advantage)
- Had a nice religion, DF, +15% growth when not at war, +1% production per follower, IP, tithe. Enhanced my religion before first AI religion was founded -> my religion dominated the map -> large tithe income
- Used the 500 el Dorado gold to buy a setler.
- Build GL, HG, Petra (2nd city), ToA (2nd city), Stonehenge, Oracle, Pyramids + every Rennaissance and higher era wonder that I wanted
- Filled every non-merchant specialist slot ASAP in every city
- Turn 80ish I gave every AI 1 GPT for the 'we traded recently' modifier. This can tip the attitude of an AI from neutral to friendly. Many DOFs followed soon afterwards.
- SP: full tradition - liberty opener - full rationalism - freedom (up to buy spaceship parts for gold) - full patronage
- saved my writers until I got the +100% culture from the international fair -> burned my writers when I could get the most for them
- Had DOFs with everyone except Venice. Had three rounds of 6 RAs in total. Didn't bring as much science as I'm used to with deity AIs (but still helps a lot). Tithe helped a lot with financing my RAs (~60 GPT midgame, ~100 GPT late game).
View attachment 360470 View attachment 360471
Turn 204 Science victory
Comments to my game:
- OP map (did read the thread and used that info to my advantage)
- Had a nice religion, DF, +15% growth when not at war, +1% production per follower, IP, tithe. Enhanced my religion before first AI religion was founded -> my religion dominated the map -> large tithe income
- Used the 500 el Dorado gold to buy a setler.
- Build GL, HG, Petra (2nd city), ToA (2nd city), Stonehenge, Oracle, Pyramids + every Rennaissance and higher era wonder that I wanted
- Filled every non-merchant specialist slot ASAP in every city
- Turn 80ish I gave every AI 1 GPT for the 'we traded recently' modifier. This can tip the attitude of an AI from neutral to friendly. Many DOFs followed soon afterwards.
- SP: full tradition - liberty opener - full rationalism - freedom (up to buy spaceship parts for gold) - full patronage
- saved my writers until I got the +100% culture from the international fair -> burned my writers when I could get the most for them
- Had DOFs with everyone except Venice. Had three rounds of 6 RAs in total. Didn't bring as much science as I'm used to with deity AIs (but still helps a lot). Tithe helped a lot with financing my RAs (~60 GPT midgame, ~100 GPT late game).
nice game! I am not sure I can match your t204 win, but I will give a try later when I got more time.
1. For RAs, how did you fund them? I usually spend gold on CS and buying sci buildings and after that I don't have enough gold to give other civs for RAs.
2. Liberty opener - was that for pyramid? usually people (including myself) open patro before renaissance if needed.
3. RAs - how many turns did you save with each RA?
Arachnofiend
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I'd been avoiding this challenge for a while because I want to get better at the game and be able to play worse starts on higher difficulties (still trying to make my way up to Immortal) but I'd been getting frustrated and wanted to let off some steam. 
I didn't have the Rocking in the Free World achievement yet so I figured that this start was perfect for a tall culture victory. And hoo boy it was. Assyria was kind enough to wipe out Brazil and Egypt early for me so they never got a chance to build up their culture; he took out Germany too. I paid him to go after the Inca around turn 160; I was friends with the Inca, and didn't want Assyria swallowing them or anything but I also knew that the Inca had built the Great Wall and figured Ashur's advance would stop there. I was right, and hilariously enough Assyria never made peace and spent the rest of the game trying to bash its head into the Great Wall.
The only real culture competitor I had was Portugal, and even then it wasn't much; when I got to the Internet I realized I was already two concert tours away from victory. I hadn't even built the Visitor's Center at that point. I used my faith pool to buy up the needed musicians and sent them off towards Portugal. I built the VC while they were in transit and figured out that I would have won with zero concert tours by turn 289. This may be the definitive "the AI did not even try" game.
I didn't have the Rocking in the Free World achievement yet so I figured that this start was perfect for a tall culture victory. And hoo boy it was. Assyria was kind enough to wipe out Brazil and Egypt early for me so they never got a chance to build up their culture; he took out Germany too. I paid him to go after the Inca around turn 160; I was friends with the Inca, and didn't want Assyria swallowing them or anything but I also knew that the Inca had built the Great Wall and figured Ashur's advance would stop there. I was right, and hilariously enough Assyria never made peace and spent the rest of the game trying to bash its head into the Great Wall.
The only real culture competitor I had was Portugal, and even then it wasn't much; when I got to the Internet I realized I was already two concert tours away from victory. I hadn't even built the Visitor's Center at that point. I used my faith pool to buy up the needed musicians and sent them off towards Portugal. I built the VC while they were in transit and figured out that I would have won with zero concert tours by turn 289. This may be the definitive "the AI did not even try" game.
Attachments
Nice! Got same gpt rate and got 4 DoF and i could sign some RAs but prefered to not do it. Maybe i should next time? Especially that i finished Rationalism very early...
6 gs planted? Does Freedom has something to do with? I actually never opened Freedom yet...
Edit : Best i did(retry form turn 180) is turn 216. I will definitiely try to sign RAs next time.
dutchengineer
Chieftain
1. I didn't have to spend much gold to get my city state allies. They were kind to provide me with many quests that I could easily fulfill. Also, getting an early barb camp near those 3 CS south of the start position (3 x 50 influence for capturing the barb camp, + 3 x 45 influence for freeing the same worker (that got recaptured by barbs a few times
) helped in my game. In terms of buildings, I only bought one university and one public school (both in my capital) in the entire game, all other science buildings were hard builded (as soon as available).
2. I had to choose one SP because of not reaching renaissance soon enough to open rationalism after tradition. I indeed choose liberty for the pyramids, because I had only 5 workers at that time, which is not enough for 4 cities. 7 supercharged workers did the trick. Opening patronage would have been equally benificial, though, I was in doubt about which one to choose.
3. RAs gave me 4 to 6 turns of research iirc, depending on the trading partner. This translates to basically one tech per RA.
dutchengineer
Chieftain
Nice! Got same gpt rate and got 4 DoF and i could sign some RAs but prefered to not do it. Maybe i should next time? Especially that i finished Rationalism very early...
6 gs planted? Does Freedom has something to do with? I actually never opened Freedom yet...
Edit : Best i did(retry form turn 180) is turn 216. I will definitiely try to sign RAs next time.
Freedom has 4 nice things for a SV:
1. +25% GP generation for more GS
2. +4 of the appropriate yield of GP improvements
3. 50% longer golden ages -> I had a permanent golden age from T140 onwards (1 x happiness, 2x great artist, Taj Mahal)
4. Buy spaceship parts with gold
Pretty interesting. Order is often counsiderated like the best tree for science victories. I'm going to try this tree next time.
joshua43214
King
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- Mar 21, 2012
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I find order vs. freedom entirely map dependent. It depends both on the civs and the terrain. The benefits from freedom are much better than order in a high pop, hammer starved empire. I mean what good does being able to put hammer output into science on a jungle map? If you are not going to be able to sign any late game RA's, then freedom is good for the extra GS's. I do like order alto for science, but freedom is not to be dismissed out of hand. As for happiness, I never have any issue getting the 30-40 surplus happiness on Immortal to take freedom.
But he did both. Order can give you more happiness i think so maybe its more ''happiness'' dependent. And this emperor map gives A LOT of happiness.
neilkaz
King
Can this extremely OP starting map be copied exactly and reposted as a Deity challange so many of us can try for our first Deity win?
casualplayer
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2012
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- 208
On Deity, Brazil and Inca are going to ruin your day with their 2nd Settler.
