Emperor Cookbook III -- Kublai Kahn

[RJM]

I decided to try rexing. Of course my economy crashed and my research rate plummeted. I managed to reach writing and build some libraries by AD1, so my research rate has risen at last, but it is still difficult to raise the research rate above 0%. I suspect I rexed one city too many too soon.

Spoiler :

My initial research path was mining, BW, IW (when I found I had no copper), AH, writing. I was able to obtain Agric and Archery for IW from Zara Yaqob, but that was the extent of my early tech trading (I couldn't get alphabet because I was still researching writing - perhaps I should have waited). With libraries and scientists, research began to improve. I used my 1st scientist to discover alphabet, which enabled another round of tech trading, but I wonder if this was also a mistake. In a (probably belated) attempt to revive my economy, I am now researching towards currency.

Anyway, here is my contribution.

 

[shyuhe]

I had some fun with this. Count my game as a shadow (spoiler to 1 AD).

Spoiler :

I reluctantly settled in place. We're up in the north and I want the wheat but I'd have to settle on the stone for that. Plus I thought I might miss some fishing resources (which I did anyways ).

I then teched AH (pigs) and then BW. I realized at this point that 1) Hammurabi was close enough for a rush and 2) I didn't have bronze or horses to rush with.

So I teched pottery then IW while spamming settlers and workers because I had nothing better to build. Once I got iron, I realized I had settled 3 iron tiles through my early rex. Critically, I denied Hammy his nearest iron source. Little did I know how good this was.

I continued my rex while building swords and axes. I did some training on a barb city that spawned at the corn-sheep-fish site. Then I scouted Hammy's capital (which was 2 turns from my nearest city) and found only 2 bowmen. Poor guy I prompty declared war. I had some ridiculous losses on the RNG but took his capital and holy city, leaving him with a decent hill city. I attempted an assault on it once but failed and am now waiting for catapults while I fix my economy and do some peaceful building. I am still at war and Alex is also at war with Hammy (dogpile).

Fred had been bribed into war against me at the start of the war but he never sent anything after me. Once I got currency, I took peace + 55 gold from him. Currently teching priesthood to build a temple for a GP. Pyramids are 1 turn from completion and I'm dominating the demo screen at 1 AD.

eastern half:


western half:


en route to domination:


PS. The AI tech rate is astoundingly bad. I think the conflicting religions is slowing tech trading:

 

[Gumbolt]

Okay I have had a bash at this and i have taken a very different route to the rest of you. I would be besides myself if I played the mongols and didnt use their UU.

I have left a more interesting game to continue. No one has LB yet to my knowledge.

Spoiler :

So typical start.

Research AH and work the resource in BFC.

Heres where my game differed. I skipped mining and BW and went for HBR.

After worker I grew city to size 2-4 and spammed 2 settlers.

So I had no real chopping till 2000bc or so. Forest can be useful later!!

I expanded to the horse resources and built 3-4 cities. One south of the capital.

Now I needed archery for my first attack. Doh!!! So built Ger in capital and set other cities to build them too..

Once Archery was researched i built lots of UU. Still no chopping. I firstly took out a barb city for gold. (i was short).

My next target was Babylon. Went in with 5-6 UU and took it. 60% defence and a holy city. I then proceeded to take out 3-4 other babylonian cites. Some of which I razed.

In terms of techs. I traded HBR to every other Ai with alphabet. I then researched 50 hammers of Alphabet and traded for alphabet with another AI. I then traded HBR to every other Ai who had a tech i wanted.

Hammy eventually gave me monarchy and monotheism for peace.

I chopped pyramids in capital around 1ad.

Yaroq is also at war with me for some reason. Fool!!!

All in all the economy is running at a loss but manageable so far. Hammy is worthless with 1-2 cities but some useful techs. Yaqob is about to find out just how powerful my UU is. Pillaging and razing of his outer cities will keep my economy alive. Look at stack west of his capital.

I have played on further but I dont want to ruin the fun.

On a side note I think Hanging gardens and TGL are easily choppable in my capital or other city!

See i can do a few games at once Bley!!!

 

[Soirana]

shuyuhe:
mmm, actually first time i see AI attaching GG.

gumbolt:
I used them. Very profitably if you ask.

Edit:
Goblbolt: How you came up with Turfan position? You know

Spoiler :

1S gives city a cows. You should noticed Kubla is creative. I guess you did not know about fish when settleing, right? Bu cows is next to impossible to miss on scouting.

 

[Gumbolt]

Spoiler :

In terms of the games i have viewed. I have one critism. none of you have used the mongol UU!!!

One of the best UU in the game and you all failed to even use it. Even i managed to locate a horse resource.

Shame on you all!!!!

I would of made it part of the game that the Mongols have to attack with their UU as the main attacker if possible before 500ad.

That being said their are a couple of strong starts here.

 

[Gumbolt]

shuyuhe:
mmm, actually first time i see AI attaching GG.

gumbolt:
I used them. Very profitably if you ask.

Edit:
Goblbolt: How you came up with Turfan position? You know

Spoiler :

1S gives city a cows. You should noticed Kubla is creative. I guess you did not know about fish when settleing, right? Bu cows is next to impossible to miss on scouting.

I saw the blue circle and moved on it. i think it was plains hills too. I wanted the production. I always try to settle on plains hills for production. Oops you did use the UU on Akkad.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Hi guys ,

I also played a quick round so I might as well post it...
The situation looks like Shyuhe without Mids and Babylon plus aesthetics, going for the GL...
I lack Monarchy and COL to really start researching at nice pace...
10 cities,11 workers, 1 GS, first in prod and population. The situation is quite good even if I rushed the thing (so I am not too happy with my city placement, worker management...), but better rounds have been probably posted

Not sure I will have time to play all the rounds ( with the focus this thread deserves) though...

some pics:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Cheers

 

[plako]

I decided to try this one.

Spoiler :

I've basically concentrated on Rexing, running scientist and building wonders.

I scouted first west and then south and found Hammurabi soon and some of the others. However quite a many AIs are still missing. My first dissapointment was that Hammurabi was able to found Akkad 1 turn before I had my settler there. Therefore I planted Beshbalik maybe a little suboptimally (I didn't have even Agriculture at that point). I thought that with creative trait I could win his city culturally, but that hasn't yet happened.

I was able to scout the Hammurabis lands when my scout died. I should've sent some new scouts because I've Open borders with most, but that has to be fixed later. Unfortunately Horses were quite far so I decided to postpone collecting them and concentrate on Specialist economy with Wonders. Hammurabi didn't seem like a person I want to rush wo horses.

This seems to be Judaism lovefest and I'm part of it. I've decent relations with most other leaders.

I did run most of the time Slavery and Representation after the BW and Pyramids were ready.

Research was (don't remeber exatly which trades I made so some of those might be missing):
AH-Mining-Masonry-Writing- Agriculture-Bronze working - Traded Archery and Mystisicm (probably silly to trade this cheap techs) - Fishing - Aesthetics - traded Pottery and Iron Working - Mathematics - Meditation - Priesthood - traded Alphabet and Monarchy - Code of laws (got confusciam holy city) - Polytheism - Sailing - Traded Calendar - Literature

I'm researching civil service, but I think currency might be better at this point.

I was able to collect wonders:
Capital: Academy, Pyramids and Hanging Gardens
Beshbalik: Great Wall

I also planted 1 Great Scientist to capital before founding Academy.

Currently building The Great Library in the capital and Temple of Artemis in Beshbalik (latter one is desparate and provides only gold and should be changed to military build) and I'll have soon marble online.

It seems that none of the leaders are really interested in Wonders all of them did seem to go quite late. I even got small shot at Oracle when I noticed it wasn't yet gone when I researched Priesthood, but failed few turns.

My Army is definately little too small, but in urgency I've possibility to use whip and after few turns I'll have also horses hooked up. HBR is not yet researched.

Mosty of the cities have Library and some of them Courthouse.

I've also shortage of Workers (just 4 at the moment) that has to be fixed soon. Fortunately there aren't many tiles I want to work.

The pictures lack my last city in the west that has been founded to collect horses, marble and fish.

View attachment plako_ECIII_AD-0001.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[Gumbolt]

I decided to try this one.

Spoiler :

I've basically concentrated on Rexing, running scientist and building wonders.

I scouted first west and then south and found Hammurabi soon and some of the others. However quite a many AIs are still missing. My first dissapointment was that Hammurabi was able to found Akkad 1 turn before I had my settler there. Therefore I planted Beshbalik maybe a little suboptimally (I didn't have even Agriculture at that point). I thought that with creative trait I could win his city culturally, but that hasn't yet happened.

I was able to scout the Hammurabis lands when my scout died. I should've sent some new scouts because I've Open borders with most, but that has to be fixed later. Unfortunately Horses were quite far so I decided to postpone collecting them and concentrate on Specialist economy with Wonders. Hammurabi didn't seem like a person I want to rush wo horses.

This seems to be Judaism lovefest and I'm part of it. I've decent relations with most other leaders.

I did run most of the time Slavery and Representation after the BW and Pyramids were ready.

Research was (don't remeber exatly which trades I made so some of those might be missing):
AH-Mining-Masonry-Writing- Agriculture-Bronze working - Traded Archery and Mystisicm (probably silly to trade this cheap techs) - Fishing - Aesthetics - traded Pottery and Iron Working - Mathematics - Meditation - Priesthood - traded Alphabet and Monarchy - Code of laws (got confusciam holy city) - Polytheism - Sailing - Traded Calendar - Literature

I'm researching civil service, but I think currency might be better at this point.

I was able to collect wonders:
Capital: Academy, Pyramids and Hanging Gardens
Beshbalik: Great Wall

I also planted 1 Great Scientist to capital before founding Academy.

Currently building The Great Library in the capital and Temple of Artemis in Beshbalik (latter one is desparate and provides only gold and should be changed to military build) and I'll have soon marble online.

It seems that none of the leaders are really interested in Wonders all of them did seem to go quite late. I even got small shot at Oracle when I noticed it wasn't yet gone when I researched Priesthood, but failed few turns.

My Army is definately little too small, but in urgency I've possibility to use whip and after few turns I'll have also horses hooked up. HBR is not yet researched.

Mosty of the cities have Library and some of them Courthouse.

I've also shortage of Workers (just 4 at the moment) that has to be fixed soon. Fortunately there aren't many tiles I want to work.

The pictures lack my last city in the west that has been founded to collect horses, marble and fish.

View attachment 199989


View attachment 199990

View attachment 199992

Spoiler :

Its interesting the advantage of going the BW route in terms setting up the econmy and teching faster. Of the games i have seen i am slightly behind tech wise. Although I do feel I have run more of a war economy and got the UU up and running more.

Now I just need the stable quest.

It will be interesting to see how many people pop a GE with the pyramid start.

 

[ChromiumL]

Finally finished my round--and I'm feeling fairly good about it!

Spoiler :

I settled on the plains hill 1n of starting spot, hoping for seafood (and found fish).

My tech path was sorta weird this game--animal husbandry first (for pigs), then mining, BW, Masonry (for wonders and stone), agriculture, pottery, writing, fishing, alphabet (and some trading around for IW and archery), then aesthetics, monotheism, polytheism and literature. Right now 1 turn from horseback writing

I settled Beshbalik to the south of my capital for cows, wheat and eventually wine (and later found out there was some iron too!)

Next I built a gold city which has struggled to grow because I have only recently been able to get the flood plains within my cultural borders.

Finally I built a city to the west by sheep, fish and rice. Another settler is heading west but I left him so that, if my save is chosen, people could decide where they want him (I was thinking the fur, horse spot to get UU, but the cows iron spot is sorta tempting too...)

As far as wonders go, I have recently been experimenting with espionage economy stuff and so built the great wall first, followed by the pyramids (both in my capital). My first GP was a spy and he went down to the tech leader (at the time) Arabia and I used him for the 'special mission' thing where you get tons of espionage points. He was also far away, so if a spy is caught he will have a hard time attacking me. A spy is on its way down to him now (thought I had two--maybe one got caught on the way down and I didn't notice it or something). I haven't traded for a few techs because I am hoping to steal them instead. My second great person was an engineer--I used him to rush build the great library... which may not have been the best choice, but I wanted it to be built by the end of the round. The parthenon is almost built in Karakorum (9 turns left).

I switched over to representation after I built the pyramids and got a ton of scientists going, so my tech rate is pretty good. I was afraid of over-expanding so rather than building a ton of cities, I just did a lot of fog busting to ensure that barbs didn't build cities that I would have to take later. All of my cities are Jewish, but only Hammurabi follows that faith--so I haven't converted since I don't need to make him happy or upset any of my other neighbors (also haven't needed to yet--no happiness problems).

Finally, I have been building away at my military--which still isn't 'great', especially since I don't quite have horses yet for the UU.

Pictures:

Spoiler :

Tech Situation:



Relations:



Lay of the Land:

 

[ChromiumL]

I just want to remind everyone, for future reference to please edit the name of your save to some variation of this format:

ECIII Name Year


Now its time to start voting. We will vote and discuss, then on Wednesday a winner will be declared and a new round will start.

Here are the submitted saves:

King Morgan: Post, Save

Soirana: Post, Save

RJM: Post, Save

Gumbolt: Post, Save

RRRaskolnikov: Post, Save

Plako: Post, Save

ChromiumL: Post, Save

 

[Bleys]

I didnt write mine up. It sucked too bad. I hate Normal speed, too hooked on Epic, I guess.

I will have another go next round though, I think it might be a tad easier to learn Normal playing progressively like this. Play a set that sucks and is about to fall apart, and load up the next winners save, and fubar it again, heh, maybe some of it will sink in!

 

[ppciv4]

more workers, chop everything into army and you will get more land...

IMO Mongal is weak, who will research Horse back riding anyway....

 

[RJM]

My vote is based on which save I think will help me improve my game, rather than which is the best position.

1. RRRaskolnikov - certainly managed to pack those cities in - economy needs building, but can be done
2. Chromium - good research rate and plenty of opportunities to expand
3. plako - good expansion while maintaining reasonable research

Soirana's is a tempting save with the possibilty of pushing the war on or accepting peace, but (for me) it has fewer learning points.

RJM

 

[KingMorgan]

Difficult choices for the saves, had a good look but cannot make up my mind.

Will mull it all over again later.

 

[shyuhe]

more workers, chop everything into army and you will get more land...

IMO Mongal is weak, who will research Horse back riding anyway....

Keshiks are awesome. You can absolutely destroy the AI by charging at backline cities etc. Unfortunately horses are in a very inconvenient spot on this map so for most players, I don't think they came available at a good rushing date. Still, you can rush pre-LB AI with Keshiks and do fine if they're not 40% culture.

 

[Gumbolt]

Keshiks are awesome. You can absolutely destroy the AI by charging at backline cities etc. Unfortunately horses are in a very inconvenient spot on this map so for most players, I don't think they came available at a good rushing date. Still, you can rush pre-LB AI with Keshiks and do fine if they're not 40% culture.

Spoiler :

Okay i forgot leader was creative. Still there was a reasonable location for a third city for horses. If you built on the mountain at the far west horse resource. i think one save did this.

 

[Gumbolt]

I saw the blue circle and moved on it. i think it was plains hills too. I wanted the production. I always try to settle on plains hills for production. Oops you did use the UU on Akkad.

Oops you meant the marble/ horse city. yeah with a creative leader that was a mistake.

 

[shyuhe]

Spoiler :

Okay i forgot leader was creative. Still there was a reasonable location for a third city for horses. If you built on the mountain at the far west horse resource. i think one save did this.

The problem is that you either had to get sailing (which is what I did) or make a really long road. Either way, it significantly slows down the "rush" date, making it slightly less desireable. Given the ample land to expand into, it's not surprising that most players didn't (ab)use the keshik.

 

[Gumbolt]

Spoiler :

3-4 workers make easy work of a road. As i had no BW my workers had less to do. I was building roads instead of chopping.

I suppose for a proper early rush you would of gone copper and taken babylon quite early. If you had copper. To some extent I do like to play the civ the way they would of done it. Which generally means finding a way to use the UU or UB. Happily in this civ they support eachother well.

I agree the UU is strong. Taking the Ethiopian capital even at 60% wont be too hard with this UU and no catapults in my game. Its not abusing the game though. The Ai has the chance to build elephants once they reach construction if they have ivory. Even without the UU the horse archer is a strong attacking unit. Its the AI weak war strategy that makes the UU strong at times.

It brings us back to a debate of what is being clever about the game and what is cheating.

Fact is the human player will optimally play to his/her strengths.

Such as whipping and chopping at start. Using the UU and UB effectively when they add value.

Building the wonders that help the player. mids, GW, Glib. Is there a single person that didnt build the mids?

Same goes for the tech tree. Most players realise the Ai avoids asth and go this route for trading purposes and the Glib. This is why most players get the GS early and bulb philosphy.

Even the liberalism rush is abusing the game to some extent as the Ai always go for economics before liberlism. The human player happily ignores certain techs and gains the advantage. Where most of the Ai tech very similarly at times.

Unfortunately the AI cant learn from its mistakes unless Firaxis patches the game. So the player will always have these tricks to fall back on.

Although this is why you have higher difficulty settings to provide the challenge to the more seasoned player.

For me its a shame that certain strategy are so much stronger than others. that being said civ 4 is still challenging on the right settings