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Emperor Cookbook III -- Kublai Kahn

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by ChromiumL, Jan 6, 2009.

  1. ChromiumL

    ChromiumL Warlord

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    The Emperor Cookbook is a concurrent succession game series to help readers learn how to play and win at Emperor level in Civilization 4: Beyond the Sword, v3.17

    This is the 3rd game of the series.

    For more information or to discuss the format, please visit the Monarchist Cookbook Bullpen.

    ========

    Our third Emperor Cookbook game features Kublai Kahn. We will be playing at Emperor difficulty, normal speed, standard size Pangaea map. I didn't set any of our neighbors--so if one of them is Shaka, don't blame me!! Huts and events are disabled for this game, as they tend to make things more random.

    Here is the info on our leader, his unique unit and building as well as our starting position and settings:

    Spoiler :


    Our Fearless Leader:



    His UU:



    His UB:



    Our Starting Location:






    ========

    Round one lasts from 4000 BC - 1 AD.

    Please play this Round and submit your Report into this thread by next Sunday (the 11th) if possible.

    IMPORTANT (changed): Please use spoilers if you want to discuss opening strategies prior to starting the round

    At the end of your Round, please remember to name your save with your name, game and Round # & game date (i.e. "EC2 Round 1 MyName BC-1500.CivBeyondSwordSave"). (And please don't forget to attach it to your Round report, either! )

    ========

    Roster:

    YOU! - contributor, voter - our most important fixture, the readers who follow the threads and play along.

    Now that we have upped the difficulty level, we will return to the 'best ball' system of selecting and playing saves. What this essentially means is that after we have completed each round, everyone will have a chance to vote on which save is in the best position. The winning save will be used for the next round.

    If there is any player who is strong at Emperor+ level, it would be great to have you post your saves to show us how it's done. However, I request that any of you who realize your round was far superior remove your save from the voting. This rule is intended to ensure that the game doesn't get into a overly strong winning position after only a few rounds (because what fun is that?).

    Voting Rules:

    1. You may NOT vote on your own save (but you are encouraged to state the strengths and weaknesses of your save)
    2. Only those who have posted a round may vote (those who are shadowing are always encouraged to express their opinion!). If someone misses a round, but have played all previous rounds, they may vote.
    3. Don't vote on a save that has voluntarily been removed from the running by the person who submitted it.
    4. At the end of each round you can vote on 3 saves for first, second and third place. I believe that these votes should be made publicly in order to allow for as much discussion as possible. I strongly encourage you to explain why you are voting for a particular save. This is one of the best ways to learn, and that's what this game is all about! If you feel uncomfortable voting publicly, PM me with your vote.

    After a couple days for voting and discussion a winner will be declared and we will move on to the next round.

    =======

    And with that, let the Game begin...

    ========

    Intrathread links (ToC): (note, the turn sets are subject to change, this is a tentative schedule to get this first round underway, we are still trying to find the best length for each round)

    Round 0: The starting save (this post)
    Round 1: 4000 BC - 1 AD- Chromium
    Round 2: 1 AD - 800 AD- now playing
    Round 3: 800 AD - 1400 AD- upcoming
    Round 4: 1400 AD - ... AD - upcoming
     

    Attached Files:

  2. ChromiumL

    ChromiumL Warlord

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    Hmm--just realized the cut off dates we have been using are for Epic speed. Any normal speed players out there who can recommend cut off dates?
     
  3. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Normal speed and a top horse UU!!!! I can see TMIT fuming that this is not epic already. Although no events or huts will balance this out.

    if I wasnt shadowing a Shaka game i might play this. :)

    (anyone know why the smile icon still has a santa hat??)
     
  4. KingMorgan

    KingMorgan Deity

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    I'd say 1AD, 800AD, 1400AD.
     
  5. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

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    Play both Gum. I was kind of practicing for a warmonger situation with the Shaka game since its the weakest part of my game. Playing KK is a blast though, CRE rocks, and Keshiks are even more fun than Impis. This could be a nice game to see if Cav really can be used to dominate the late game. I expect most will have Ger's up, as well as cheap barracks.

    In regard to the turn times, I like a slightly longer first round, and shorter as we progress.
     
  6. KingMorgan

    KingMorgan Deity

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    There appears to be no 1500BC on normal speed.

    1560BC or 1480BC. Unsurprisingly my save is 1480BC ;)


    After playing this map, i would suggest 1000BC may be an appropiate round length.
     
  7. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    I could squeeze out a round i guess. At this rate I will end up with 6-7 games on the go.
     
  8. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Played a quick (and horrible) round to 1480bc. 1000bc would end the round on an even number (but my save would still be horrible).
     
  9. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    I think first cut could be even later like 500BC. Early game does not really diverse that much.
     
  10. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    In the immortal cookbook, we had the first round go up to 1AD (115 turns on normal speed) since that was a date with enough variation in everyone's game. Anything in the BC's (we discussed this on the other thread) might give some variation, but not much.
     
  11. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    It is THE top horse UU (and has been ever since the cossack was no longer str 18 and available at MT :rolleyes:. I don't have problems with normal even though I prefer epic (Did the latest LHC on normal). I have some problem with marathon (it would make this civ really, really abusive for example), and I have MAJOR issues with quick (so much that I feel the difficulty is irreparable short of fixing the scaling and tech vs troop movement).

    I always start these but then they're way too slow-paced for me. I'll probably do immortal U next...but hell I'll at least TRY to keep an eye around for this. Try.
     
  12. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    yeah, 1AD would be good. I suggested 500BC as a compromise as many guys seem to like it being in BC's.
     
  13. ChromiumL

    ChromiumL Warlord

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    Hmm, I haven't played normal much (and won't have time to play this one until the weekend), but I can see that anything in the BC is going to make it tough to vote because there won't be much difference between saves. Lets go with the 1AD, then probably 800AD and 1400AD (we may change those as we go along... I will have to see how it feels).

    Sorry for the inconsistency with the dates!
     
  14. Diamondeye

    Diamondeye So Happy I Could Die

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    A vastly underplayed leader! Adding this to the bullpen :scan:
     
  15. KingMorgan

    KingMorgan Deity

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    To 1 AD

    Spoiler :

    Pretty lame land, still could be worse.



    4 cities, all good. One GP farm, one commerce, one Mardy Statue city and the capital. Chunk of land locked off. iron hooked in, sadly horsey are too far away to settle until the next round.

    techs are good, important ones are in.




    no trades made thus far, Asth is monoply and ready for some alpha trade abuse.



    Plus points.
    Mids are built and Rep and Slave are running.
    Acdamey in capital, also GSci is fortified ready for use.
    Good city sizes, plenty of production for the coming wars
    Whole landmass is explored all AI met.
    Great light is ready for the taking.

    I'm sure someone else has all ready rushed Hami, but i'm resonably happy with this effort, lookimng forward to seeing other submissions!!


    View attachment KingMorgan EC3 AD-0001.CivBeyondSwordSave
     
  16. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    Partial report to 600BC
    Spoiler :
    Actually i think i will need to remove my save from further contention for being too good.

    Date is 600BC. I do have 5cities (and space for a couple more) Mids (also GW for not very clear reasons). Marble+stone. Oracle is still open (unluckily being bad as i am i missed that, luckily i have forests prechopped for Parthenon so...)
    And against all odds i have GE.
    Literature will be in 4turns. I just traded out Aesthetics for parrity.

    Options are bulb MC with GE, spun forges, probably grab Machinery with GE. Iron is present

    Rush Temple of Arthemis (still open) with GE, chop TGL(ibarary) in capital. With Mids and NE this will make insane GPfarm with minimal investment. I will have live with unclean pool, but still...

    Grab HBR with Oracle, rush HE with GE, spun Keshiks, kill Hammurabi.

    Grab Code of Laws, Settle GE. Go towards CS. for insane beuro capital.

    Some mixture of options above. (should i include GE for hanging gardens?)

    IMO, that was very strong starting position for Pangea. Unluckily i cannot stop here. (no deviation in BC, yeah?)
     

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  17. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    to 1AD
    Spoiler :
    Wel, situation appeared to be not that good. And i screwed few things... But not totally. Let say it is quite a shrine in our position and one guy who hates us.

    I still think the game is won. At least it is in some undecided position.

    I will dop my in game notes [and some later comments in brackets]

    Turn 1 - Scout 1SE, 1NE. Settler 1SW settle. Start worker, tech AH
    [that was hard decidion, i suspected sea food. and stones is not bad tile. Still faster worker+better micro. I hoped to pick seafood from other place. it was still three early power tiles giving six food+hammers and moving inland is wise on Pangea]
    T11 - worker done, 2 turns to AH moves on pigs spends one turn building road, build warrior for fogbust.
    [deer pushed by calculations to wrong side. Forgot it was 4fodd+hammer tile while not improved]
    T13- Ah done start mining, worker starts on pigs, Hammi is damn close seems like a situation for REX.
    [Okay, i am giving away Agriculture. Well give fact it provides another 6f+h tile i am not so hot about the move. Although if i would grow, farm... that might take too much time.]
    T14-Warior done start another. First one moves towards pig gold cite
    T19 - Capital grows to size two and get second warrior (management looks good:)), start settler for gold cite, worker will start road but i will need to put second city before finished road.
    [Fact is simple faster i hook gold, faster i get things online. It will be quite a time while i close gap to crab site but that is good enough]
    Darius founds hinduism.
    T21- Mining done start BW (I am intentionally skipping Agriculture to have time to gamble for both copper and horses)
    T26- Found awesome tundra cite with fish, horses, marble and lots of snow. We also are in favorable position to seal some land
    [nice peninsula on Pangea? Give me two!]
    T28-settler done starts moving towards gold pigs, start another worker (yeah i am saccing growth in capital)

    T31- found second city for pigs+gold and some desert, that one goes worker first and costs me -4 gold. Well, thanks to creative i will tap in gold soon
    Start doing binnary research and take lunch break
    [that was why i think skiping Agri was mistake it took quite a time to reach BW, while i might had Agriculture]
    t33-worker done, after long thinking I start amother settler to seal peninsula.
    [another worker or warior+mining hill was close calls, yet land is even more power on Pangea]
    First worker spurts for gold, second goes to do roading, hammi drops city near east cows. [Akkad which will be mentioned later]
    I move fogbuster i am not inclined for culture war [soon will be changed]
    t36-Beshbalisk culture expands and I start mining gold same turn. Consider switching capital to worker.
    t38-finally connected Beshbalisk
    T39-gold tapped is in, no we can start recovering. [yeah, recovering already? It is still deep BC's...]
    t40-BW is in great no Copper. Now it is time to think about city three. I can try putting pressure on Hammi, plopping 1SE of wheat.
    Or i can do something with four food sources SW. I can develop only sheep unluckily sheep does not go with my mental plan.
    I finish picking 1NW from wine. I will probably fight off winery while FP is gone, worker roads wheat. i laso can switch wheat between, cap and this city, save on distance, get some riverside grassland...
    One worker roads wheat Another one goes towards the pigs (i am not inclined to keep my second city at size one for ever.)
    Do not revolt to slavery, start Agriculture [Finally. I also popped copper in Beshabalisk but at that time i had IW already]
    T41 - settler done goes to place (this time roaded,) Start yet another worker since i am in lack of these and blocks are completed. [still nedd border pops, but looks good]
    Since East is totally boosted by mine and Hammi cities warrior from Besbalisk goes west to fogbust. I am planing to do with wariors untill hooking tundra horses. (brave plan but doable). [i've killed few barb archers with fortified wariors before removing last fog squares but that was all]
    t42 Turfan is founded, worker spurts to sheep (it is a pitty i could not improve it yet), start worker first [i was suspecting i was overbuilding these already]
    t45- Agriculture in, start Massonry (considered Pottery, but stone is so tempting), pigs are in but i wait one turn before letting Beshbalisk grow to let worker to be finished. [i take gold offline. One thing i like about setlling on stone/marble is saving time for quarry which let's delay massonry]
    t46- let Beshbalisk grow. start farming wheat, cap builds warrior,
    T 50- rng screws me good, off all cities babilonian cities Akkad is holy city of judaism:mad: [he had two cities so no big surprise]
    t59 [or earlier notes are MESSY] - Start writing (well i will need fishing soon) but to i am closing in Mids and i will need writing to USE THEM. Beshbalisk is building GW. Hopefully for cash, but i really do not have much to build in there. I will porbably stop within one turn of completion and switch to granary. Another idea was to drop it in Turfan for cultrure but i rather save forest in therefor some marble wonder.
    T63- Switch to fishing (my poor planing)
    T65-Mids - switch to representation+slavery, yes crazy enough to delay slavery so long.
    t67- fishing in, started on writing
    t-68-found nhingsia- fish+rice+clams spot. [I thought of it being GP farm but now it looks more like Maoi city (i lobe statues with stone)).
    t69- Hammi drops Stonehenge in Akad. Saying he asks for problems is underevaluation, i start roading to him as Writing is close. [he had writing before me so foreign routes could have been opened earlier]
    t71-Zara techs Alphabet, but is stuck on three cities. [i'd rather have two cities than three extra techs on Pangea]
    t73-i decided to stop gambling and finish GW, move worker into hammi's teritory to finish trade network for foreign traderoutes. [either that or i just missed how Beshabalisk switched to GW]
    Well i perceive Beshbalisk as production city but start Library. Gold+ chance temproralily work two guys in Library. [bad specialization i know]
    Start working on Aestetics
    t80-found Old sarai for horses+marble+fish+ice:lol:
    t86-trade for alpha to zara, turn around and get mysticism+ironworking from Darius, well we do have iron:).
    t87-Unluckily i will have to through Poly by myself. Nobody wants to trade it.
    t89-Zara asks to convert to judaism and i go for it. Found Saladin and Frederick - good scouting from both sides. Buddhist block:rolleyes:. [Well, if i care. we have border with hammi only and he has no copper and no IW yet]
    Do quick trade with Fred rapidly moving to trade limits. [I traded like crazy so someone might fear our advancement soon]
    t91-I get GE. Well, well... That sends me for second break. I also notice crazy fact. Oracle is till on.
    [look at5 previous post for my thoughts]
    Being absolute idiot I rush Temple of Arthemis while switching to Organized religion. [My workes chop while i am in anarchy, and meanwhile...]
    t92-Hammi gets oracle, the only thing he has on me is monarchy and i do not see his tech:cry:. [took feudalism, bastard. Obsolete was right it is better to deny wonders from AI.]

    I started playing in semiautomat from here.
    t101- i got the great library
    t102-HBR
    t104-got great merchant. After some thinking settled it. [i love settling them. +1food especially.]
    [I started using whip for real even realising I am planning intenrntionally screw the save. Also lanted spies in akkad. Had to run espionage slider up to get enough spie points and...]
    t114- being bad as i am i declared on hammy. Spy revolt Akkad and take it. Well, we got SoZ, Solomon temple and Stonehenge [Stonehenge is worthless, Statue... Good it is on our side, and shrine is already at 15 gold]
    1AD sorry, but bad managenemnet lead to need recapture Akkad. Well, it is not well prepared war, but you did not expect i wil leave it in builder mode.

    [Honestly i was never expert of two move units. more a siege guy. On other hand it is probably not recomended to build Great Library before making move with Keshiks.
    I would call it a day. Babylon has two longbows and formation spear while we have no espionage left. Unluckily judhaism seems beeing winning block and the only way to conquest goes through Babylon. I would like extort something for peace (he was teching Drama before war.)
    I am not fan of demographics screen but number one in prodction and gold and second on land is good.

    If you play from this keep in mind lots of workers are currently doing nonsense while one or two are already automated.] Hanging Gardens still open. ?NE is almost done and S. Paya can be fastly added to caps pool.
    Next person is in two turns 50+% of scientist. I still think game is mop up further on.
    May be i should move myself to immortal full time.]
    Honestly should i continued grow peacefully save would be better. Or maybe i should have done limited war for keeping Akkad only. So much about warmongering.

    One of options is to attack Nippur while moving arround Babylon to remove last hammi's source of metal. Besides you can bring Zara to a party with bribe. Although knowing he has eight cities already.


    At least i had fun.
     

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  18. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Well, I DQ'd myself by playing it out start to finish :p. I was looking good until I stalled in a war and wound up having to sabotage my way to a 1960 AD space win. Spectacularly...slow for emp. But I hate space...although not as much as losing...
     
  19. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    What was a problem? No aluminium?
     
  20. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Bad tech rate and indecision between UN abuse, legit domination, and space. I tech-fed a friendly (well, friendly to me) AI too much and that stupid thing got bigger than me so UN abuse was out :(. Smooth. Fortunately, at least I had the fallback of COMPLETE IMMUNITY TO BEING DECLARED ON. Still, watching me tech to space is probably just as painful for others to watch as it is for me to do it. I hate worker micro that late in the game. I hate switching tiles to hammer tiles and trying to get the food right. I hate having to check the VC screen every couple turns because that late in the game, you have to be careful about sudden backdoor diplo wins (I bribed him out of a war so he wouldn't get another vassal) or culture (although culture is obvious at least).

    The worst is constantly checking their techs so that you can tech (aka catch up) as much as possible while still making sure you have enough EP to prevent a launch (although at least I didn't lose internet this time). Mid 1900's space wins on high difficulty are a very good indicator of a war game where nobody won convincingly :p.
     

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