Emperor Cookbook Shaka

[Gumbolt]

Spoiler :

Well Soirana must have listened to me giving our neighbour an extra settler and gold in BFC. Just glad it wasnt Justin. I dont normally approve a worker steal but if its me its okay.

I wonder how many cities Gilga will have in the other saves. The AI do like whipping archers and workers.

It would be nice to see starting Wb save and the finished save for the CkBk.

 

[Nares]

Edited

 

[MaximumPain]

Here is an analysis of the saves so far. Sorry but for those who did not label your saves they are called unknown 1-4 if they are in the running we can find the correct owner.

This is not an attempt to vote yet just a posting of what I think of the saves so far including my own. All criticism is aimed at being constructive I hope.

Spoiler :

Ik = Ikhanda, Mon = Monument, Gr = Granery, Lh = Lighthouse, Lib = Library

Gumbolt

Spoiler :

Bronze Working, Pottery, 10 to writing. No fishing
13 pop & 1 Settler
6 workers
8 warriors
2 Mon
3 Ik
1 Gr
Good roads and bronze hooked up. War with Gilgamesh already. Culture bocks if peace can be attained.

Ambro

Spoiler :

BW, Pottery, 27 to sailing.
10 Pop
3 Workers
8 Warriors
2 Ik
1 Gr
2 Mon
Ok roads but it will be a bit until bronze is hooked up.

Pholtz

Spoiler :

BW, Pottery, 10 to writing
9 pop
3 workers
1 workboat
6 warriors
2 Ik
2 mon
Good roads and bronze soon. Poor block on Gilgamesh.

Solon

Spoiler :

BW, 1 turn to writing no fishing yet.
12 pop
3 workers
5 Warriors
2 Ik
3 Gr
2 Mon
Good roads, good block.

Pawelo

Spoiler :

BW, 5 to writing but no fishing.
9 pop
3 workers
2 warriors
5 Impi
1 Ik
1 Gr
2 Mon
Good roads, good block on Gil.

Teelman

Spoiler :

BW, 4 to writing, no fish or pottery.
9 pop
8 Warrior
3 worker
2 Ik
2 Mon
Excellent block, good roads.

MaximumPain

Spoiler :

BW, Pottery, and Writing, 8 to mysticism.
12 pop
3 workers
6warriors
2 Gr
1 Ik
Good roads,2 hamlets, poor block on Gil.

Huerfanista

Spoiler :

BW, Pottery, 9 to writing.
Stonehenge!
7 pop
1 worker
4 warriors
3 mon from stonehenge
1 good road but poor infrastructure otherwise, Excellent block on gil.

Mc-Red

Spoiler :

BW, writing, archery. No pottery, just starting the wheel.
6 pop
1 worker
1 work boat
6 archers
2 warriors
2 Ik
1 Library
Poor infrastructure and of course no roads. Excellent block on Gil.

2nd half is coming later today

 

[cripp7]

@MaxPain

Spoiler :

Great job on the stats there!

 

[huerfanista]

@MaxPain

Spoiler :

What the difference between an excellent block and a poor block in your analysis? It appears to be settling on a hill, even though it makes for a poor city as a result (misses fish, 1 hill to work, shares corn). In my placement, leaving the easternmost tile forested will provide good defense, the fish can be worked, 2 hills can be worked, and the city can act as a canal. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand the use of a pejorative ("poor") when describing what would otherwise be considered superior placement (in my mind). We're not Charlemagne, after all, planning to stock a hill city with protective archers, are we?

 

[/solar/]

Realised I didn't put my save in my last post, so here it is. Not as though I expect it to be taken (I wouldn't) but for comparison or something eh.. Pic and info is on page 4

 

[MaximumPain]

@MaxPain

Spoiler :

What the difference between an excellent block and a poor block in your analysis? It appears to be settling on a hill, even though it makes for a poor city as a result (misses fish, 1 hill to work, shares corn). In my placement, leaving the easternmost tile forested will provide good defense, the fish can be worked, 2 hills can be worked, and the city can act as a canal. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand the use of a pejorative ("poor") when describing what would otherwise be considered superior placement (in my mind). We're not Charlemagne, after all, planning to stock a hill city with protective archers, are we?

Spoiler :

I consider an excellent block one that controls the isthmus completely, a good one that blocks the rout onto our section with culture, and a poor one is one that can develop into a full block but is not there yet. I called your poor because it wont culture block until nobamba grows and you have nothing building culture there yet. My save has the same issue but is even worse as after a culture pop I still wont be blocking Gil.

Edit looks like I screwed up on that and you should be rated as an excellent block as you do control the whole Isthmus and are on the hill. Thats the best block that can be had at this point. Sorry about that.

 

[MaximumPain]

Here is the second half.

Ok heres part two. I will talk about what I think in more detail later I just wanted to get these stats out there now.

Spoiler :

Shafi

Spoiler :

BW, pottery, 21 to masonry.
10 pop
4 workers
7 warriors
1 Gr
1 Mon
Great block, good roads.

WFU03

Spoiler :

BW, 1 turn to writing, no pottery.
7 pop
4 worker
5 warrior
2 Ik
1 Mon
Good roads, excellent block. Bronze will be available soon.

Smitsk00

Spoiler :

BW, 3 to fishing, no pottery
8 pop
3 worker
8 warriors
3 mon but 1 is in the capital?
1 Ik
Good roads bronze hooked up soon. Good block on Gil.

Afrika

Spoiler :

1 turn under the stop time.
BW, writing in 16 turns, pottery.
5 pop
1 settler
4 workers
1 work boat
5 warriors
1 Gr
2 Mon
2 IK
Poor roads but a good block on Gil.

Mike

Spoiler :

BW, Archery, 16 turns to pottery.
9 pop
3 workers
5 Archers
1 Warrior
3 IK
2 Mon
No roads, Excellent block on Gil.

Dualmaster

Spoiler :

BW, Sailing, wheel in 1 turn.
10 pop
3 workers
5 Warriors
1 Work Boat
1 Ik
1 Lh
2 turns until great Lighthouse.
No roads and poor block on Gil.

Here are the 4 unmarked saves.

First

Spoiler :

BW no fishing or pottery
10 pop
4 workers
2 Archers
3 Warriors
3 IK
1 Gr
Good roads, excellent block.

Second

Spoiler :

BW, Sailing, 4 to wheel.
10 pop
5 worker
5 Warrior
3 Ik
1 Lh
1 Mon
Excellent block and of course no roads.

Third

Spoiler :

Archery but no BW, 1 turn to sailing.
9 pop
3 workers
4 archers
1 warrior
1 Ik
1 Gr
Excellent block.

fourth

Spoiler :

BW, Pottery, 6 to fishing.
11 pop
1 settler
4 workers
7 warriors
2 Ik
Poor block on Gil.

Thats it for no. I will say more once we are cleared to discuss actual voting.

Edit ~ Ill try to get to Solars yet tonight.

Edit 2 ~ Already had one mistake pointed out so please check the entry and let me know if I screwed up yours and I will fix it straight away. This turned out to be bigger then I expected.

Thanks for your patience.

 

[MaximumPain]

Ok here's Solar's amended.

Spoiler :

BW, pottery, writing, 3 to myst
10 pop (4 cities)
5 workers
4 warriors
3 ikhanda
2 granary
1/2 a library in cow/corn city
bad blocking ( :/ )

Spoiler :

No matter what happens this has been a great exercise in seeing the effects of building an early wonder on population and growth. Only Dual master managed to come out of the wonder project with a respectable population and his save is hurting for buildings. I usually love to get wonders but was to scared of the AIs in what I thought would be a game way over my head. I still think I have a lot of work to get to this level but seeing my offering up against all the others have given me hope for my game.

Thanks all and good luck.

 

[huerfanista]

@MaxPain

Thanks for doing this. That's a lot of saves!

 

[huerfanista]

@MaxPain

Spoiler :

You should also consider reporting gpp/turns to first gp. AFAIK, mc-red (possibly, if any scientists are assigned from his library) and I (GP from henge for quite a while now) are the only ones generating gpp. For example, in my save Ulundi has 90gpp already, and is 30 turns from popping a GP (25 when settled).

EDIT: Also, you didn't mention that I have fishing.
EDIT: Disregard that. I see that you're only mentioning fishing when it hasn't been researched. My bad.

 

[/solar/]

Ok here's Solar's

Spoiler :

BW, Pottery, 9 to writing
7 pop
1 worker
4 warriors
3 Mon due to Stonehenge.
Excellent block and one good road in place.

That Doesn't sound anything like my game. I have:

Spoiler :

BW, pottery, writing, 3 to myst
10 pop (4 cities)
5 workers
4 warriors
3 ikhanda
2 granary
1/2 a library in cow/corn city
bad blocking ( :/ )

 

[mjg5591]

@ solar

Spoiler :

Like that you have 5 workers already. Pottery and writing in to help economy. Some cottages down already.

Couple things I saw in your save. I would have OB with Giggles to scout his land. Also could trrade sheep for his pig. Not that we need the health, but for diplo. Also worker in Bulawayo is chopping a forsest plains and could be chopping forest grassland. Typically try to chop grassland before plains. Also don't like placement of Bulawayo one of the coast.

 

[MaximumPain]

Ok here's Solar's

Spoiler :

BW, Pottery, 9 to writing
7 pop
1 worker
4 warriors
3 Mon due to Stonehenge.
Excellent block and one good road in place.

That Doesn't sound anything like my game. I have:

Spoiler :

BW, pottery, writing, 3 to myst
10 pop (4 cities)
5 workers
4 warriors
3 ikhanda
2 granary
1/2 a library in cow/corn city
bad blocking ( :/ )

Heh yeah looks like I did Huerfanista's save as yours very sorry.
Ill fix it my entry as well.

 

[Gumbolt]

Spoiler :

Looks like it's me who is confused.

Even if you do still have 10-15 turns to get Copper, anyone else who settles that site is looking at a significant number of turns to grow to pop2 to whip the monument. Basically, 3X as long as it will take you. Even if they've settled it already, it'll still have a significant number of turns to growth (unless they settled it awhile ago, in which case they're either or ).

@Gumbolt

Spoiler :

I just took a look at your save. Looks great. Choking a Creative leader is the only real way to deal with them in the early game. Keeping his Copper pillaged is excellent, but he'll quickly escort workers with archers. The race is on to get some impis down there.

Quick question, though. You mention having difficult getting that pair of workers back because of some archers. Exactly how many archers are we talking about? I see one roaming to the SW, but otherwise don't have any numbers on Gilgamesh's cities. Also, how long ago did you declare war?

Here's the thing. I don't know about a protracted war against a creative leader. Now we also know that we'll pick up -1 YDWOOF! with Kublai each time we declare against Gilgamesh, so taking peace may not even be extremely desirable. That said, if you've been at it awhile, he may be in full-out military mode and may be more difficult to crack than he appears to be at the save.

Back at the GLH, I think the best summary of it is that it's uninspiring, and it won't make for an exciting read if it's the staple of every game. Likewise the Pyramids and the Great Wall, and to a lesser extent the Oracle (at least there's some potential for variation here).

Spoiler :

Yeah he has quite a few archers he has whipped. Nothing more to date though. He has one worker wondering around. Once the impi in the capital is built it can reach the workers and hopefully escort them home. The warrior has woodmen2. Trouble is Gilga keeps blocking route with archers. His cities wont be happy if he keeps whipping them.

End of day he has been restricted to 3 cities while I will soon have 5 going 6. Not sure who else is on our island but gilga and mongals are at pleased status.

That being said because of the workers I have highest pop count and will have most cities out of all the saves. I can still push in another blocking city for the fish too.

I will close the round in 8 hours. (when i wake up!!)

 

[pawelo]

@Gumbolt

As it's my first Emperor CB - what's the purpose of the vote ?
Should we go for the best one or the greatest learning-value one ? Or something in between ?
It's rather important to know which way to go - there are some games that went much better than the others, although it might be more challenging to skip games with wonders ?
As the round is pretty wrapped up, I won't spoil by saying that your game is very strong in terms of scouting value, putting some light on important questions every other player is facing. Also, you are already running the strat I was planning for the next set . Only thing is that if we go for your save it's almost as easy as with TGLight built.

So, the question is - what's the 'big picture' behind the decision as for which game to vote ?

Thanks!

 

[Soirana]

@Gumbolt

As it's my first Emperor CB - what's the purpose of the vote ?
Should we go for the best one or the greatest learning-value one ? Or something in between ?

The one you want to play from. Nothing can prevent you from coting for best, most interesting, best dealing with Gilga or having GLH save.

Let's be honest AI's are doomed to loose [although i do remember cookbooks were people lost - in all saves or something like that]. Their doom should provide entertainment for players

 

[Nares]

Edited

 

[smitsk00]

@maximum pain

Spoiler :

It should also be noted that my save has 60% of Writing completed. Fishing is really just 1 turn away of the slider is pushed up as well.

I agree, the monument in the capital seems silly. I was running at 10% and didn't want to produce a unit that I would be forced to immediately disband. The fact that my capital is going to have nothing better to do than pump upgraded warriors for the next 10 turns really annoyed me. I was going to get out 1 more worker as soon as I got 1 more gpt.

As for general strategy:

Spoiler :

I like the idea of choking giggles. I opted out of it becasue I have very little experience choking and was wary of losing the two crabs. That being said, now that a choke has started, I like the idea of trying it out.

I am very wary of any save that doesn't have copper online or at least has it comming very soon (<20 turns).

I am also wary of saves that focused only on building cottages, but whose city sites are production poor. Whether Gilgamesh is conquerable or not is up for some debate, but we are going top have to fight him at some point. Whipping away cottages is not a good plan, IMHO.

I will also mention that I do not think settling on the wine was the best move. You lost the cows for 1gpt and marginalized the potential of a cottage city near the grass cows. I know that it was a bit of a blind guess at the time, but IMO, not optimal in the long run. If I had to do it over again, I think the southern coastal spot would have been best.

 

[Gumbolt]

We will go ahead and vote for 2-3 days. Hopefully finish by Sunday/Monday or when all that have played have voted. Its not always about voting for the best save but the save that will be most interesting or challenging to play. Anyone that submitted a save is free to vote.

Please rank your top 3 in order.

First place 3 points.
Second place 2 points
Third place. 1 point.

PLEASE NOTE!! To keep voting fair you cant vote for your own save. You are expected to vote for 3 saves and give reasons for your voting. Remember this is a learning game. I would encourage everyone to act within the spirit that the cookbook is intended.

Anyway here are the saves:

Kossin

Dualmaster

MJG5591

Nares

Smitsk00

Oranje Willem

WFU03

Cripp7

Steve250

Shafi

MC-Red

huerfanista

Maximum pain

Teelman

kbo

Pawelo

Solon70

Pholtz

Ambro

Gumbolt

Cabert

/Solar/ So many saves was bound to miss one. Sorry for that error!!



Voting will end on Monday 6pm GMT or at the point where everyone from this round has voted or there is a clear winner.