Emperor Cookbook Shaka

[Solon70]

Actually, your save was pretty competitive EXCEPT for losing the copper/phant city, and thereby forcing war with KK. In fact, I'm amazed at how many people razed that city (Eridu) and kept Kish (pig/iron). Razing Eridu is sacrificing long-term gain (jumbos - a key strategic resource - and key territory) to sort-term benefit (lower maint). I'm also amazed at how many kept Kish, a truly mediocre spot, when razing and settling 2S of the pigs is a truly superior location (high food and prod).

Personally, I kept Kish because it was an early target of opportunity and it seemed helpful to have a base of operations down there until I could take the other two cities. A mediocre city is pretty helpful if it can actually build units right next to the action. However, it was sort of painful for the economy without Sailing to open trade routes.

 

[pawelo]

Sorry for delaying the votes - have been busy lately.

As I said, despite having the best save, I'd like to go with a more challenging game Anyway, as the general consensus is to go with Kossin's save (best one around) I'll comply.

1st - 3 pts - MJG - good eco state, CS to come soon. Lack of ivory makes the game more interesting in terms of tactical choices

2nd - 2 pts - Steve - your save is also good shape, despite Gilga is left breathing general eco is good and you can bring him down anytime

3rd - 1 pt - Kossin - the game is won, unless big surprise or a will to lose Great job on eco recovery, the only thing I can reproach is Kwadakuza placement.

@Naras
Too bad you removed your game, it was a truly interesting alternate to Kossin's save.
Good job anyway

 

[mjg5591]

My votes

1. Kossin - Clearly the best game. Already has CS and 10 cities with good economy.

2. Pawelo - Markets will be up and running shortly. Got gem site and alot of cities well improved. Behind in tech but with markets online soon should catchup.

3. Steve - Even though gigles still alive. Economy in nice shape. Placement of Orindni is odd. City north of capital.

 

[MaximumPain]

Sorry all due to the internet being down at my house and my employer not allowing me to play civ 4 at work (something about actually getting work done) I was unable to review or post a save.

I think Im way over my head but still plan to shadow this game once I get my cable modem replaced.

 

[Gumbolt]

Theres Solon Warmonger and Steve (and me!) left to vote.

Kossin 13 votes
MJG 9 Votes
Pawelop 8 votes
Steve 250 6 votes.


I will await final votes. We need to make decision if we go for a quick win with Kossin save or for more of a challenge on MJG or Pawelo or Steve save. My vote could yet be critical but lets see how the others vote.

 

[Solon70]

1. Kossin - clearly the best save, now I need to figure out how you did it!

2. Steve - Gil is stronger than in some other saves, but shouldn't be a big problem, and save is strong otherwise

3. MJG - good economy, settler ready to settle that pig spot, will probably need war with KK soon to recapture the choke


Something I'm still trying to get a handle on for my own games is the strategic building of wealth/research. It seems so inefficient (straight hammer conversion w/ no multipliers) that I tend to shy away from it except in the most extreme cases, but people are using it so it's obviously better than I thought. How would you decide, and is one of wealth/research generally better than the other?

 

[kossin]

@Solon70 - I built research and then wealth It was the best thing to build in almost all the old cities as Ikhandas made markets/courthouses not really necessary.

Basically, once Alphabet was in, I built research almost everywhere to hurry to Currency, then wealth to hurry to CS to use the bigger multipliers (Academy).

 

[Gumbolt]

I think its clear Kossin will win this round. She is 6 points ahead with 3 votes left one of which me. As its the majority decision I will happily vote to decide this matter.

I will vote in a bit and close the round. Thats if I can stay awake long enough.

I need to make the usual end of round post in a bit.

 

[Gumbolt]

Okay closing shop early on this round as there is a clear point leader.

My votes

3 points to Kossin as clearly the best save.
2 points Steve. Economy in good shape.
1 point MJG. Currency and COl are in but science needs to be recovered.

Final vote scores:

Kossin 19 votes
MJG 11 Votes
Pawelop 8 votes
Steve 250 10 votes.

Congratulations to Kossin the winner of this round!!!

The next round will be played over the next 4-5 days with voting over Friday-Sunday.
The round will finish Friday time 1800hr GMT.

The next round will be played from 400ad-1100ad. Lets get playing people.

Here is the winning save to be used for the next round:

Kossin save

Please ensure when you post save you rename with your name.

Round 0: The starting save -
Round 1: 4000 BC - 1500 BC- Completed
Round 2: 1500 BC - 400 AD- Completed
Round 3: 400 AD - 1100 AD- Playing
Round 4: 1100 AD - 1500 AD - upcoming
Round 5: 1500 AD - 1700 AD - upcoming
Round 6: 1700 AD - 1820 AD - upcoming
Round 7: 1820 AD - 2050 AD - upcoming

 

[mjg5591]

Round 3 To 1100AD,

Spoiler :

Started off switching Uruk and ulundi to stables. So when construction in they Produce WE.

Tech path this set, Philo (got religion), MC, Mach, Eng, Paper (due in 2 turns),

When construction came in I switched Eridu to cats.

655AD Philo in, religion in Nongoma the island city.

950AD I finally declare on Kubai. Up until now it was army build up in most cities, Capital and west city worked on science and gold multipler buildings.

960AD Capture Sanchu.

970AD Trade gems to charlie for spices.

1010AD Capture Turfan. I kept it. Looking back maybe should have razed and placed 2W.

1070AD Capture Karakrum. Someone say no GLH. Well Karakorum had it.

1100AD I am still at wat with Kubai. We can get peace for arc, mono, 100gold. We have paper in 2 turns. GS is due in 7 turns to help bulb edu. I think Uruk is good spot for HE, although I haven't teched aest or lit.

Also didn't make any trades with charlie. Didn't want him trading it to Kubai.

I was heading to Lib and trying for steel from it.

Screenswhots.

I'm worried about Charlie. He has alot of land down south. He also settled a city near our 2 gem city, trying to steal our corn.

Thinking we could get peace now and redclare on Kubai when have muskets and cannons. Although continuing this war could work also.

As for Bulwayo, I should have tried to get get vertical growth. I just let it build wealth. And as for City below Ulundi I just let the 2 scientists run. Could have prolly managed this city better also.

I irragted all the way to the west city for the corn, although I haven't mined the iron over there. Was trying to figure out how we can irragate Erundu and city west of it. All those brown tiles.

Save

 

[huerfanista]

Congratulations, Kossin. It'll be interesting to see how everyone plays this round. For myself, I plan on going after Charlemagne ASAP. I have visions of a 40gpt hindu shrine dancing in my head and I think that if he's left alone, he'll be a far greater threat than KK.

 

[warmonger]

Sorry I was late on the voting - wasn't online over the weekend.

Kossin would have got my vote as well as clearly the best. I would appreciate some more detailed comments on my save if anyone has the time - it would help me understand what I am missing out on doing to keep up. Obviously, I built too many units, didn't trade enough, and missed on the micro management. Thought I handled the economy reasonably well and had fun killing all the archers.

I didn't keep the ivory / copper city purely for economic reasons - couldn't afford it. By the time, I took the coastal pig city, cottages were everywhere back home and starting to contribute.

PS - have the save and should have completed the round by Tuesday evening CET.

 

[Gumbolt]

Congratulations, Kossin. It'll be interesting to see how everyone plays this round. For myself, I plan on going after Charlemagne ASAP. I have visions of a 40gpt hindu shrine dancing in my head and I think that if he's left alone, he'll be a far greater threat than KK.

Remember his UU will be lethal come engineering. +100% melee and mounted.

 

[Gumbolt]

Sorry I was late on the voting - wasn't online over the weekend.

Kossin would have got my vote as well as clearly the best. I would appreciate some more detailed comments on my save if anyone has the time - it would help me understand what I am missing out on doing to keep up. Obviously, I built too many units, didn't trade enough, and missed on the micro management. Thought I handled the economy reasonably well and had fun killing all the archers.

I didn't keep the ivory / copper city purely for economic reasons - couldn't afford it. By the time, I took the coastal pig city, cottages were everywhere back home and starting to contribute.

PS - have the save and should have completed the round by Tuesday evening CET.

It was a tough round really so dont feel hard done by. For a rush on Emperor 4 cities is a bit too much.

Kossin already commented on your save. 'Low city count and research is hurting. 2 in the Capital should have been whipped. Why didn't you revolt to Hinduism? Every city has it and you'll get good Diplo with your neighbors. Way too many units sitting around in Uruk, deisband them or use them, it's killing the economy. Monarchy is not what you should be teching as both your neighbors will trade it, Currency is a better choice. '

My thoughts.

Your city sizes are small. The 2 cities closest to your capital are not working the food resources and their city size is low at 3/4. I suspect this is due to the war and economy needing recovery. Your science compared to other saves is poor. The Ai has 2-3+ more techs than you. You could perhaps of started towards a great scientist by hiring 2 scientists in your capital. Deleting 10 units in Uruk would up your science by 18 beakers a turn. Codes of law and currency are key to recovering your economy. I suspect the Ai will tech monarchy for you anyway. Again you face the problem of KK and HRG gobbling up the remaining empty land.

In terms of the other saves you can see Kossin, Steve and other managed to stay more competitive with their economies. With Kossin having several court houses already. For me I used a lot of the gold from war to pump into research. I was also able to bulb philosphy using my great scientist. Overall on a plus side you managed to rush an Ai which had already whipped out quite a few archers before 1500bc.

 

[mjg5591]

Congratulations, Kossin. It'll be interesting to see how everyone plays this round. For myself, I plan on going after Charlemagne ASAP. I have visions of a 40gpt hindu shrine dancing in my head and I think that if he's left alone, he'll be a far greater threat than KK.

I'll put this in spoiler, just because I don't know if it shares thoughts on game past certain date.

Spoiler :

Well I if you plan that you better be quick or mass up alot of siege. Charlie's UU kinda owns WE and maces in my experiance's. KK seems like the easier target, while getting his lands will help take out charlie later. Just my thoughts.

EDIT Gumbolt kinda beat me to it.

 

[kossin]

Unfortunately for Charlemagne, his UU does not have a bonus % against siege though
Just a heads up though: Charlemagne has not built the shrine yet.

 

[Gumbolt]

I'll put this in spoiler, just because I don't know if it shares thoughts on game past certain date.

Spoiler :

Well I if you plan that you better be quick or mass up alot of siege. Charlie's UU kinda owns WE and maces in my experiance's. KK seems like the easier target, while getting his lands will help take out charlie later. Just my thoughts.

EDIT Gumbolt kinda beat me to it.

I didnt consider that required a spoiler as its a fact about HRG. Perhaps strategy should be left in spoilers till more people have played.

 

[Gumbolt]

Unfortunately for Charlemagne, his UU does not have a bonu% against siege though
Just a heads up though: Charlemagne has not built the shrine yet.

Holy wars can be a pain so theres a minor risk of this. As Kossin stated earlier grabbing Kk capital with The Great lighthouse could be just as useful as a holy city!! 2 extra trade route per coastal city would outweigh any holy city if it did have a shrine.

Its an interesting debate though. That being said I dont fancy a stack of his UU charging down my borders without crossbow to stop them.

 

[cabert]

1100AD right?
here it is.

Spoiler :

didn't play very well, but here is what I did
- research construction while building courthouses (short term, wealth is better but courthouses are long term investments + I was going to need the production power)
- research MC, build forges, 1 for the colossus in uruk, others just for the production bonus
- research machinery (might just as well build a few maces)
- traded administration for feudalism + a whole lot of backfilling including archery :crazyeyes:
- research literature, then music (free GA for a golden age used for a few civic switches)
- built the colossus, a lot of catapults, some elephants (from uruk with stables), a few maces, declared war on KK, took 2 cities and razed 1.

edit : forgot I also researched paper and a good part of education.
edit 2 : I also researched philosophy .

 

[cabert]

Holy wars can be a pain so theres a minor risk of this. As Kossin stated earlier grabbing Kk capital with The Great lighthouse could be just as useful as a holy city!! 2 extra trade route per coastal city would outweigh any holy city if it did have a shrine.

Its an interesting debate though. That being said I dont fancy a stack of his UU charging down my borders without crossbow to stop them.

a stack of catapults is pretty good at stopping a stack of knechts+ he's not that close to them.
I still think it's safe to leave charlie's border lightly guarded while attacking KK, and I believe if you do it the other way around KK will come for you.