Emperor-Demigod. The Great Leap?

[Zardnaar]

I normally play on Emperor and have won about 10 games or so with a variety of civs and win conditions and starting locations/maps. After (In my current game) a bad start with England and having to fight of the Mayan hordes of Doom twice with basically a pair of spearmen and archers I'm considering moving the difficulty level up a notch.

Whats the main difference at Demi God compared to Emperor? On Emperor I can often lead the tech race by the early middle ages (or catch up by the early industrial age if things go wrong) and can often build any wonder I want if I really need to (by any wonder I mean any 1 wonder I think I need given the current game circumstances- prebuild or GA perhaps). I rarely build wonders though- take them off the AI instead

From what I have read here at civfanatics I understand you well be behind in tech/land/gold for alot of the game at this level. Also I don't think my favourite civs (England, Byzantine) will be to great either- a more aggressive civ/UU may be needed for my 1st game. I'm considering using the Zulu, Americans, or Persians/Iroqous for my 1st attempt. Any ideas/advice.

 

[Crakie]

It's difficult to hand you ideas when I don't know how you achieve your Emperor wins. Are you able to set up the famous 4-turn setler factory? Are you experienced in micromanaging? Do you have experience with buying techs and can you prioritize them? How are you using artillery in your games?

Whether your step up to demi-god is a leap, will depend on your answers to the above questions.

 

[Zardnaar]

I can get a 4 turn settler factory if the conditions are right for it. 5-6 turns is alot more commen. I tend to micromanage my core cities while I'm somewhat slack on the more corrupt ones. I have won with every victory condition but spaceship seems to be the most commen one- 100 MA and MI backed up with 50 bombers+50 artillery tends to win a battle but I don't have alot of spare time to spend more than 20-30 hours on most games.

I use artillery in stacks. I usually end up with 30-50 artillery units and in the last games used nukes to soften up the dominant AI. I usually fight early wars to expand and secure resources.

As for buying techs I would rate myself as competant but I usually lead the tech race I have caught up from being multiple tech trees behind in tech through tech for peace deals and tech buying/trading. Not a complete virgin I suppose.

 

[Crakie]

Ok, I would definetely give demi-god a shot if I were you, see if you can get a feel for it. The most common way, at least for me, to win these games is to secure enough territory in the early game, either by expansion or by a quick war or both, then making every tile in your civ count, both money- and productionwise. Only after replaceable parts, war is an option again as you will be behind in tech on most maps and may even have to fight superior units. As you may know, the tech pace is slower on archipelao maps.

Just off the top of my head, I would advice you to protect your reputation, as you tend to need gpt deals to keep the AI from attacking you. Bad rep = no gpt deals. Also, use the upgrade option. I find that building cannons and mass upgrade them to artillery saves alot of valuable time, for example. Same trick applies to horsemen to knights to cavalry.

I would argue that scientific, industrious and agricultural are the most beneficial characteristics for high difficulty games. But the other ones definetely have merits. The unique units is very VERY important, as it will trigger your golden age. An early GA may come in extremely useful to fend off an aggressive neighbour in the AA, but generally you want it later, when techs are more expensive.

Hope this helps, I am interested in your experiences!

 

[Chieftess]

My first demigod game, I played the Iroquois. I also tightly packed my cities to get 15 and 10 spt cities. I built up a ton of MWs (didn't have iron), and was going for the Hittites when England decided they wanted to sneak attack me (I could see their stack coming for miles!). I eventually defeated England, and took their iron. Turned out that I was soon the only one with iron and horses on that continent! Time for knights next, although, the Hittites have Ancient Cav... Oh, and one Hittite city actually flipped to ME!

 

[Zardnaar]

I always keep a good rep. I never ROP rape or camcel deals or attack a civ I have a current deal with. In my current Emperor game I'm England. Unfortionatly I got cut of in a corner of an Island with few rivers and resources. Also to slow my expansion down further the Maya attacked me twice in the AA for no real reason. I got lucky though with my 2nd tech giving me a SGL which rush built the Pyramids. I ended up triggering my GA in the middle ages by building Magellans voyage and invaded the Maya to get their wonders. My Knights and Trebuchet vs their cannon and Cavalry and Temple of Zeus+Knights templar. They were also alot bigger than me. I captured about 8 wonders off them though including the Sistine Chapel, JS BAchs Catherdral and Adam Smiths Stick Exchange.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

In C3C, having a small empire is no longer a smart thing to do, as chances are you'll miss out on a lot of supplies. So try to grow as large as you can without being at too much risk for attack.

 

[Longasc]

I jumped from Monarch to Demigod - Right now there are still some Civs on my and the other continent that have a STRONG army compared to mine, but 1584 to 987 Score for the next give a good impression that the game is really going well.

IMO: Monarch to Emperor and above is a great leap.

But Demigod is just Emperor and a little bit more difficult. Not Deity yet, have not dared this level right now...


IMO the same strategies apply to Demigod as for Emperor - the game plays quite differently on Emperor compared to Monarch, but:

The starting phase is much more crucial and much HARDER. But once you get the lead in the early/late Middle Ages, you will start punishing them!

 

[Ision]

IMO the same strategies apply to Demigod as for Emperor

Not quite. Close – but enough of a difference to significantly change game-play on many levels.

Zaard,

Here is my condensed version of what to expect:

1. Demi presses you even further militarily – consequently your ability to play ‘peacefully’ is harder (not impossible – just harder).
2. Early military setbacks can be far more fatal – therefore, you must micro-manage your individual units to an even greater degree, you must plan wars in much greater detail, and your ‘war aims’ must be more realistic.
3. The higher you go – the greater the value of artillery. The main difference is that much of your artillery will be held in reserve as a ‘counter-attack’ unit – where formerly you used them almost exclusively to batter down enemy cities. Now they will be used more to save your own cities. Build more arties than you ever did.
4. The ability to ‘dog-pile’ is decreased. You simply will not have that much to offer the other AIs to so easily get them to join your side. Also, your allies will betray you more often.
5. The AIs production of naval units will no longer leave them as an ‘ocean joke’. Your coastal cities will be pressed harder than before. Leaving an empty interior becomes far more dangerous.
6. The warmonger will find that the ‘alternating wars’ strat is of greater value than before. This is especially true when you border multiple CIVs. Leaving any 1 of them alone for too long can lead to nasty results.
7. The peaceful builder will have to plan his building projects far ahead of time, and use ‘mass build rushes’ more often.
8. The power of the GL is more pronounced. ToE will more often be a catch up wonder – instead of the usual – total dominance wonder.
9. Monarchy Government is greatly enhanced in value. Going Republic can be dangerous.
10. Commie/Fascism increase in value. More importantly, you ability to properly play a Forced Labor government is increased.
11. Demo – with Sistine, and JS Bachs, and Uni Suf – will be highly highly unlikely. So, unless your reloading or stacking your start – Your days of 60 turn demo wars are OVER.
12. Lastly, - building fighters, AA guns, and destroyers will no longer be only for ‘novelty’ purposes.

That said, it is not a 'great leap' like Monarch to Emperor - more of a 'big step' IMO.

Ision

 

[Zardnaar]

Thanks Ision. I was impatiant and jumped from Monarch to Emperor after one game so didn't notice the difference much.

I rarely build Sistine, JS Bachs and Uni Suff anymore. Seizing them off the AI is a different story though. I just completed my English game so are going to try out the Netherlands on Demigod on an Island map to slow down AI tech advancement. That particular English game was the hardest game I ever had on Emperor- crap start and aggressive Maya right next door and resource screwed late game. Infantry and Artillery carried me through.

 

[Longasc]

This is a good moment to say THANK YOU to Ision.

I read his "Monarch to Emperor" and other Articles, they were really helpful what to expect.

I still had to restart but once I "got it", things were going well.

The most significant differences were the sheer costs of techs in the beginning so that 10% research or only 1 Scientist were not an option but a must - I did not research quicker than 50 turns with 100% on Demigod with 1 city in the beginning.

The greatest surprise were those damn barbarians: I really got an aversion for goody huts, there were rarely goodies in them!


Right now I am sick with influenza, but as you can see I am still able to browse the forum, so I will probably start civ-ing soon.


I am looking forward to Ision's article about the Isionites... errmm... Hittites!

 

[thefrenchzulu]

Demigod-Deity. My first leap...

I just finished my first Deity game! But first my last few Demigod games.

I normally play large pangea maps playing as the french. I have played one as the Americans and it was also quite succesful. Playing demigod, I have managed well with two early settler factories. (5 turn ones though) My early science order is pottery, cerimonial burial, bronze working, writing and the literacy. Going that way, I find that with my second city (also normally a settler factory, I can slip in a temple and easily prebuild the great library. My third city is a spearman factory and I go for well space early cities. I have tested the strategy of going for less bigger cities and found it very use full. On large map, that's about 28 cities. I don't count, but my last city is normally new paris. ;-) In all my demigod games, I could easily play compltely peaceful games and led science most of the way. I could have won all with UN victories and was forced to won one that way. The rest I won via domination. The moment I hit tank, I start killing off my rivals. I don't go for massive upgrading anymore as it is just to expensive. I rather go for massive army build up just prior to getting tanks. I still upgrade my invantry, but build my 100 artillery and 100 tanks. Most of my cities builds a tank in two turns and some even in a turn.

I can easily get first to the industrial age. I go for astronomy, (prebuild Cornelius in my best science city) Then Democracy. Once I get to Industrial age, I go steam power, sanitation, and then straight for the TOE. I ignore replacable parts and nationalism. Those I can easily trade, later in the age. I go for the Hoover dam.

Now in my only deity game, things went a bit different. The Aztechs next to me, got the pyramids and started the GL before I even completed writing!!! Oh well, I changed my strategy and it went as follow.

I had three beaver and two gems recources and also two iron! The gems I basically stole from the Indians. It was sitting in a mountain range deviding our two areas, but they still surrounded my city with their own massive culture rich cities. I changed my science reseach and include warrior code, wheel, horseback riding (one horse close to my capital!) and iron working and then started saving.

With about 15 average cities, I started producing spearmen, archers, horsemen and swordsmen and started planning my invation of the Aztechs. My early embasy showed them for having no iron and the actually forced the issue with a demand for iron! I refused and the declared war. Nice having friendly naibors. at that stage I had quite a few archers, swordsmen and al some horsmen, but my army was rated a weak against all my rivals! Still I manage to buy, trade alliances with everyone I new at that stage. Iron for the Iroques, GPT for the Indians and Mayans. I faced mostly horsemen and Archers, but my first few attacks was succesfull and I mange to easily clear all the Aztech cities placed among my own. Then I started my supply line toward their capital and manged to capture it with far less catualties than expected. At this stage I had a horseman army and soon afterwards I nother leader followed! I used this to rush my Forbidden palace inside their capital after the war. I only managed to capture a few Aztech cities in the end, with the spoils aslo going to the indians, incas and mayans. I got the Incas involved for a spare horse resource I mange to capture. Before the Aztechs were destroyed, I also manage to capute their nicely built War academy. I was fighting longbows in the end, buy they were no match for my now upgrade medieval invantry and now knights.

From there I played a peaceful game and only started my next war after tanks. I then performed a sea invation of germany. They were sitting on a island and was far behind in tech. I got tired of paying rediculas prices for ivory and silk. They had about 10 of these and were selling them at inflated prices. It was a three round wipeout and then I went peacefull again till I had MA. I manage to get myelf into a war with the Mayans due to a badly negoriated MPP. From their on I just kept taking one rival to the next, using MPP's to force everybody to help.

Just a few things I found. I could keep to democracy by keeping my wars short. No ROP raping, just good planning. I leave captured cities surrounded, but empty and recapture if the flip.

I use MA armies sparingly, only where I need four distance attack. For the rest I rather used elite MA's. Though I had 270 artillery, I used them less than planned. Mostly to knock down radar defense and also any counter attacks. In the past I would have knocked a city all the way down to size 6 before attacking, but with 300 MA, I thought this as a waist of time. With C3C I found that war weariness is bad and wars must be quick. Democracy still rules!

I got to love Radar Artillery for their ability to drive into enemy territory before attack and ended with 100 Stealth Bombers. Never used them before so I had to test them.

I won domination in the end. The internet is the greatest wonder! Culture in all your captured cities!

Lately, yes I find fighters, AA units a must for the first time!

 

[Ision]

thefrenchzulu,

After reading your post, I do not believe that you have ever played a game above Warlord.

Ision

 

[thefrenchzulu]

Originally posted by Ision
thefrenchzulu,

After reading your post, I do not believe that you have ever played a game above Warlord.

Ision

Is my writing that bad? Or do you find it difficult to believe? ;-) Wow, after rereading it my spelling was terrible.

What about a screenshot. I have played some more, but had to reinstall.

 

[Ision]

Is my writing that bad? Or do you find it difficult to believe? ;-) Wow, after rereading it my spelling was terrible.

rofl - relax

 

[Zardnaar]

My high score table was wiped. 6000 or so was my highest. So far I'm doing well on Demigod- the historians have said I'm the most advanced and richest civ and I managed to build the Great Library. I did take an island map though and got a 1cattle /river start with the Dutch.

Ision do alot of Deity level players restart until they get a "perfect" start location? I've heard of 4 turn settler factories but have only done this once as 5-6 turns is alot more commen in my games due to lack of bonus resources I suppose. I tend to quit really bad starts (mountains, total jungle starts)

 

[thefrenchzulu]

Originally posted by Zardnaar
Ision do alot of Deity level players restart until they get a "perfect" start location? I've heard of 4 turn settler factories but have only done this once as 5-6 turns is alot more commen in my games due to lack of bonus resources I suppose. I tend to quit really bad starts (mountains, total jungle starts)

Zardnaar, it's not that difficult to get four turn factories and I have had that in the past. Three cattle for example. I do find that the better your starting off resources, the better the chance that you will not see any luxuries and later iron/horses. Well thats just my experience. I do now that Aeson, who I rate as one of the best, have won a deity game, playing on a barren ice island. It is possible and I have seen it.

In the past I use ICC, but find that playing the optimal amount of cities is much better with C3C. That's just my experience and I'm still testing it. The less corruption makes the game much better and I'm ending with size 20-30 cities producing tanks in 2 turns. Even MA.

Just a thought...

 

[Ision]

Ision do alot of Deity level players restart until they get a "perfect" start location? I've heard of 4 turn settler factories but have only done this once as 5-6 turns is alot more commen in my games due to lack of bonus resources I suppose.

Zaard,

In my expierence it is NOT common to run '4 turn settler pumps'. I don't track how often it occurs for me personally, but off the top of my head I would say a 4 or 5 turn pump is a 1 in 10 shot at best. I have found 6 and 7 turn pumps are far and away more common.

I cannot say whether Deity players regularly restart until they get the perfect location. I have never taken a poll, nor have any interest to. I can only speak for myself, and it takes an unusually horrific start location for me to re-start.

Ision

 

[Zardnaar]

I have only had a 3 cattle start once in a game and I cooked that one. Took half an hour of restarting to get it and that was for a specific scenario I wanted to try out.

I'm happy with 1 cattle or wheat.

 

[Longasc]

It might be only me, but when I have wheat or lots of cattle at my starting position and everything is bright and beautiful, I move on and notice that north everything is swamp, south everything tundra, to the east and west ocean and the island is small... doh...