Emperor Domination

Oh boy. Well, it's turn nine. I declared on turn seven, fended off a stack of 35 on turn eight.... Now I'm facing a stack of 94. It's gonna be bloody.

Actually I've stopped to think about tactics, and thought if any of y'all were around in the next few hours you could help me think.

He has: 14 artillery, 44 cavalry, 20 infantry, 6 tanks, 5 SAMs, 5 marines. On the hill SE of Carthage.

I have: 42-45 infantry (depending how thin I want to stretch the anti-american cities; though only about 35 at full or nearly-full health), 25-30 lesser troops (mostly rifles/grens/cavs), 21 artillery, 19 cannons, 9 catapults.

Last turn he only brought seven artillery, so I holed up and played defence -- spread that collateral damage around enough and it won't hurt much. If he attacks the same way this turn that he did last turn (artillery first but not knocking down culture -- it's still at 60% -- then waves of cavs, then others), then I think that that strategy might work again. But if he wises up and knocks down the culture first, I'm not sure I like the prognosis. Artillery die but do collateral, waves of cavalry mostly die but badly damage my infantry and kill some, then his infantry/marines/SAMs/tanks win most of the last 40 fights against my weaker or wounded units. Ugly, and he still has most of his best troops for next round.

Or I could attack. 80 of his units are subject to collateral damage, so they'd get tagged about 4 times apiece (at the cost of all our siege equipment). Then our infantry sally forth and ... probably fight even against his better defenders for a bit, then win most of the last 30? So that has us killing less than half his army, at the cost of our siege equipment, our fortification bonus, and the good health of our remaining troops. I just don't think fighting uphill against those numbers works out.

I could just hit him with catapults and cannons, and then play defence. They make lousy defenders (if we reach the point where a cannon is chosen as the best defender, the fight is lost anyway), so may as well use them on offence, right? And the hope would be to soften up some of his numbers enough that I can win more fights with minimal damage, so some infantry could take a couple of cavalry before becoming wounded and lame. Ride higher on the nonlinear curve that defines combat, so to speak. This is the option I'm gravitating towards, I think. With the option to use the artillery offensively as well if it looks favorable.

Or, radically, abandon the city, planning to retake it next turn. Advantages vs. a straight attack: he wouldn't be on a hill, and I could give the artillery CR2 promotions. It wrecks the buildings, and the GE that's close to spawning there, and there's some uncertainties -- culture from his existing cities would (I think) swallow it, so I could only move one tile away, at which point he could attack me in the open field if he chose to. And it gives up the fortification bonus that most of my men have now, and the chance that he'll be dumb enough (again) not to bring down the culture before sounding the charge....

Thoughts?
 
I could just hit him with catapults and cannons, and then play defence. They make lousy defenders (if we reach the point where a cannon is chosen as the best defender, the fight is lost anyway), so may as well use them on offence, right? And the hope would be to soften up some of his numbers enough that I can win more fights with minimal damage, so some infantry could take a couple of cavalry before becoming wounded and lame. Ride higher on the nonlinear curve that defines combat, so to speak. This is the option I'm gravitating towards, I think. With the option to use the artillery offensively as well if it looks favorable.

I like this the best. But yeah, he has a LOT of troops :lol:

Too bad the AI sucks at overseas wars (no Mehmed, Genghis) :(

Do you see any option as we go forward Lilnev?
 
If I can weather this 94, and he doesn't put together another stack for a few more turns (it's been my experience with wars of this era that there are a ton of troops for the first 2-3 turns, then a 2-3 turn lull, then one more significant stack before he slows down) then maybe. We still have some work to do to get production levels up (Ironworks isn't finished, several hills to convert back to mines), and we probably want Panzers before going on serious offence, and we're going to have figure out war weariness solutions .... and all of that will only come up if we can survive this storm. But I think it had to be done -- let the air out of his overinflated military.
 
Our biggest WW solution is going to be slipping into police state I suspect.

I would not use cats as they would have a minimal effect at this point, use a few cannons, but not many.

Nappy will not shoot down the wall because he has overwhelming numbers.
 
cats should still do 6 collateral dmg right?

police state is a good idea, for sure. culture slider is also a possibility. whipping :) buildings is also a good idea if we don't have them built in a given city.
 
Lurker's comment:

Somehow, I doubt the Cannons & Catapults alone will do enough damage to that stack to be sure the city won't fall. I wouldn't be hesitant to suicide enough of the Artillery to feel reasonably sure about that. You guys knew all along that a number of Artillery will have to be suicided to whittle Nappy down, so why be squeamish about using them?
 
True, True. I wish we had MG's in there too to be honest. Double F. Strike MG's.

Anyway, I'm hesitant about using Artillery (not cannons) as he has five Marines in that stack. That said...waste a few cannos and a few infantry.

And...exactly WHERE is the Pentagon? We'll need to be putting that out of commisson soon.
 
I'd also go for all the cats and cannons and then look what's left. maybe send some artillery, too. depends on the odds...

how's GW doing?
 
Wow. A stack of 94, I've never seen anything like that before. A couple of nukes on that stacks would cripple it. Of course, we don't have them.

The thing with pitching all those catapults and cannons at the stack are that units will be gaining experience. Still, his stuff needs to die and those units are only costing us money. War weariness will go through the roof.
 
Wow. A stack of 94, I've never seen anything like that before. A couple of nukes on that stacks would cripple it. Of course, we don't have them.

The thing with pitching all those catapults and cannons at the stack are that units will be gaining experience. Still, his stuff needs to die and those units are only costing us money. War weariness will go through the roof.
You're in your own turf, aren't you?
no WW for you!
 
I don't know. Haven't seen a screenshot. Perhaps I misread something. I thought Nappy was attacking carthage and his borders extended right up to the city walls. Thus, I thought us attacking him would be on his turf. No worries.
 
I made sure during my turnset (and have since then kept mentioning) that we had to win the culture war first, so that we'd get First Strike if needed.
 
Turn 1: Set research to zero. Unassign a bunch of specialists to emphasize food. Currently 5 turns to Artillery, though I'll probably shorten it later by adding scientists. +275 gold/turn. Send cavalry to scout French and American lands. Nappy has 5 tanks, a few marines, lots of infantry and artillery, and tons of SAMs and cavs. And one transport in Tours, on which I'll keep an eye. I ask him if he can spare 300 for a brother in need, but he says he can't. Draft 3 (many of our best cities are over-depleted -- not working good tiles because their pop is too low; but some of our marginal cities only have 6-8 good tiles, so here I will draft). Cities that have their infrastructure in place (barracks+assembly plant+coal plant) start on cannons, planning to convert to artillery before they're done (with rare exceptions: Knossis needs a Grocer rather badly for health, and a few hammer-poor cities are left on library/observatory builds).

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Um, no.

Turn 2: Washington has 4 transports, Nappy has built another. Draft 1 or 2, but mostly grow. Start Ironworks in Munich.

Turn 3:
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Sounds good to me.

Turn 4: Position troops. I haven't entirely figured out where Washington will attack, so I've created a reserve army to respond to his moves. His culture abuts two of our cities, which is awkward and requires substantial front-line defences. But I don't think he'll come with too much.... Research at 10% to finish Artillery.

Turn 5: Artillery in, I upgrade several cannons. More small adjustments. Three of Washington's transports have sailed

Turn 6: Upgrade a few cannons (damn these are expensive; I'm only getting ~2/turn from cash; plus some builds are coming due).

Turn 7: Upgrade a few, demand 180 cash from Washington, and DECLARE WAR!!!!

Turn 8:
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I'm actually going to play defence here. He's only brought 7 artillery, which means the collateral will be quite diffuse (I can move in another ~20 infantry and ~20 rifles/grens/cavs from the reserves), and I want the cultural and fortification bonuses. On offence, I would lose some troops to his tanks and then face a long series of 60-70% fights.

It worked fairly well. 39 killed, 8 lost (including pillager control on my turn, which actually accounts for most of the losses).

Turn 9:
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So this is where my post from last night comes in (some of my numbers were a bit off -- I misread "SAM <line break> Infantry (19)" as "Infantry (19)", and I misrembered the tank/marine/SAM split, but there's still 94 total). On the advice of futurehermit (I blame you if this goes wrong) and my own intuition, I spend the catapults and cannons for their collateral effect. His dudes are about 20% weakened on average. Still 12 or more units that I would have to beat down before artillery got favorable fights, so I decline. Promote some grens to machine guns. All eligible infantry receive maximal city garrison promotions (if this works out, it may be annoying when going on offence; but if this doesn't work out, the game is over [I've stripped the defence everywhere else as thin as can be; we need to win this fight], so I'll take that chance). Anti-Washington cities are down to 2 infantry + 1 machine gun, and I don't bother to go after pillagers. Draft three, of course, and fortify....

The result (I think I've milked this for all the drama I can get, eh?): 44 kills, 10 retreats, 4 losses. Pretty good. He only bombarded once, leaving 45% culture, and didn't even attack with over a third of his units (the most injured, I suspect).

Turn 10: He's still got 46 units there, but they're mostly wounded. I send in the catapults and cannons that retreated last time, then regular units. Unit juggling. Kill ratio: 58-21, including a mini-stack of Americans and pillagers on several squares. Fine. Hit return and....

lasombra up! No immediate threats. But, I expect Napy to put together another significant stack within the next few turns. Probably much smaller but with a fair number of tanks. And Washington may do something, though probably something small. So I'd advise to wait and react as necessary for the next three or four turns. Then if it seems quiet, consider offensive manoevers. Most of our losses on counterattack and pillager duties were from grens/rifles/cavs, plus of course the cats/cannons, so we still have 42 infantry total, 24 artillery, 6 machine guns. Keep in mind that we have no anti-war weariness buffers so far. Oh, and do me a favor and put a unit or two back in our capital. I figured Ghengis was at peace, and Mehmed was distracted, so there was no invasion threat. But Washington still has that island, and something could come out of it.

Somewhere along the way we got a Great Artist. He's chillin' with the Prophet in an interior city. Next will probably be a GE in Carthage, 9 turns or so. And 2 GGs were born. I used one for a military academy in Hamburg. I propose we use the second for another medic III. Once the age of bombers arrives we'll want field hospitals both with the attack stack and at the main airbase.

Research is kind of slow. At 60%, it's 6 turns to finish Electricity, then 12 for Industrialism. I've put some observatories back into their respective queues, and as cities grow we can run more scientists. The other consideration would be switching to Free Speech. I count 38 towns and near-towns = +76, -13 for civic costs; losing barracks :):) and the ability to draft, and spending a turn in anarchy.

And here it is, your moment of Zen:
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peace,
lilnev
 

Attachments

Outstanding! If we do as well against another nappy stack, he'll really come back to earth and it will be time to take the fight to him.

If we have 38 towns then I'd say free speech will be a better boost over nationhood. Perhaps we should synchronize the switch with the inevitable shift to police state. Do most of our cities have jails?
 
Great Job, I think that we now have a decent chance to win. I believe that most of Nappy's power comes from the size and number of his cities and the garrison of 4-5 units in each city. He will probably only be able to muster up one more small stack.

Goals:
Take Pentagon
Take holy cities (mmmm gold)
Kill him



And here it is, your moment of Zen:

:lol: :lol: :lol: This was great. I wonder how many people got that.:)
 
@Lasombra: Strike Avignon ...

Then there are 3 choices:
1) put GA then (only you may not take down the defense of the city)
2) raze it
3) capture city with cav and return to the hill leaving empty city. Next turn Nappy will capture the city and again we will capture the city and return
We cannot hold it with Infantry anyway.

1 seams most reasonable to me ...

Next player (me) should capture 2 cities. Next player 3 cities. And so on ...

It's not so easy. There will be plenty tanks and siege spoiling our plans.

Shame there are no marines. They would decide this war in 5 turns ...

@Galileo44: Unfortunately half of Nappy's strength comes from siege. We should not underestimate them ...
 
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