emperor help?

[TheLee]

so after what i thought was not possible, namely getting comfortable at monarch to consistently beat it with relative ease, i finally decided to bump up the difficulty a notch. needless to say, i got my ass handed to me. are there any good tips or tricks to keep in mind when moving up to emperor?

i guess in more detail, i tried playing Lincoln (which I normally do) - I'm a big fan of Philosophical/SE and the happy/XP bonus from charismatic i really like for early game boosts for war and whipping. I had two tactics completely fall apart for me - despite an auspicious start. I had a capitol with pigs on a hill, gold, and I used my normal worker-worker-settler-warrior build order to quickly settle a new coastal city with access to sugar, marble, and copper. I tried doing an early axemen rush against joao, but the sheer production bonuses that joao had were daunting. even though he had swordsmen, I guess a 1.5 swordsmen->axemen ratio is still really difficult for axemen to deal with, so I managed to get one city before getting peace and a free tech. after 10 years and some build up, i tried to go to war again, but goddang, my huge stack of catapults and axemen had a difficult time making any progress, and my monarch strategy of using a spy or two to wipe out city defenses didn't work (i guess the base 4 espionage/turn doesn't cut it in emperor), so that was some lost production and time, and eventually it was 1000 ad i still hadn't taken any other cities and my economy was in a shambles so i gave up on that game.

i guess i'm just stunned by how fast the AI builds and researches at emperor - normally I'm used to using scientists to power my economy to research code of laws/construction and then jump to philosophy and generally found both conf and taoism in case religion hasn't spread to my neighbors yet (and thus to me), but confucianism was being found whiel I was barely into construction, and taoism got founded just as I wrapped up construction. And even though the AI can be pretty dumb about combat, i was stunned by how quickly reinforcements stack up even after they all get slain trying to attack my SOD on a forest tile. also, cultural spread seemed insane! i had an early stonehenge (because i like early game great prophets and free monuments) but my cultural borders for some of my newer cities' tiles were being taken away by the non-creative Joao II. arrrgh!

 

[Sisiutil]

If you check my "Intermediate Tactics and Gambits" guide, I have a section on "level jumping" that may help.

Yes, the AI gets a number of boosts at Emperor, particularly affecting research and unit upgrades, among other things. So you can find yourself struggling to catch up.

In response to the specifics you posted, it sounds like you relied too heavily on Axemen and deployed them too late. An axe-rush is best when used very early on to go after a nearby neighbour when they only have Archers, and not many of them, and when their cultural defenses are still low. If the AI has better units, either you left things too long or the AI got lucky--go away and come back with better units (Cats and Swords at least). If you had spies by the time you attacked, you had Alphabet--so it's no surprise to me that the AI had units good enough to fend you off.

I would recommend loading the start again, but this time truly try a genuine Axe rush, whipping and chopping Axes as soon as you have copper hooked up and attacking Joao while he's still in diapers.

 

[pxpdoo]

And my advice will be much more conservative:
Get WAY into city management, learn when to limit growth when you can't offset happiness and/or healthiness problems, and keep plenty of units garrisoned in even the friendliest of situations.
Emporer is the highest I play on, because the game starts to drag at this level, IMO. (I've now won on Deity, but not enthusiastically...) The grindingly dull micro- appeals to some, I know, just not me.
Big Military, aggression if you can manage it, and aggressive peace if you can't.

 

[TheLee]

so i guess a good question i should ask is how effective are different victory types at emperor? it seems the higher you go the more dependent victory is based on conquest or lucky diplomacy, when really i like space race (i like researching things) - i can do some war mongering, but if that's the main goal of the game, i'm not a fan.

in general, microing isn't a problem for me. heck, i thrive on it - that's why i like SE so much.

 

[Stoney the I]

I am at the same stage as you are atm.

im a 50/50 winner with decent leaders on monarch and im trying to tackle emperor. naturaly, i also get my ass kicked.

I either build too many units and have no economy or i have a decent economy and get overrun.

I guess my first win will need a lot of luck (like having ghandi as a neighbour and found a religion for me or something) and a very delicate balance between eco and army.

goodluck dude

 

[brades]

I can consistently win on emperor with random leaders, while it can be won without an early war it is much easier to win with one. That being said I have a few pointers, after you pick your target that you are going to axe rush use your warrior to steal his worker and pillage his improvements. Basically you want to keep him backwards while you tech to construction, because as you found it its almost impossible to just straight up axe rush an opponent on emperor. Fortify units in his border which will basically force him to build nothing but archers. If it looks like your unit is going to be killed, call a ceasefire not a peace treaty, this means that you can invade the next turn if you like, and you usually will. What will happen is the AI will most likely send out a settler almost immediately after you declare peace, move your stack which should now containt at least 4 axemen or so and destroy the city as soon as he plants it and go back to pillaging his countryside, if he has a metal resource in his capital make sure you pillage that. If you dont have ironworking yet and you see a mine on flatland you can be sure that that is Iron and needs to be pillaged ASAP. Unless your UU is an early one (war chariots, immortals,etc) you will most likely need construction to take the capital. So beeline construction, get enough cats to take down his city defenses and bombard his units. This should lead you to taking out your opponent and the plus side is you will now have a grizzled veteran force with some CR3 units and at least one GG settled in your unit producing city (most likely your capital). Once you have wiped out that opponent turn your army towards your next neighbor because your economy will likely be in shambles and one way to keep it going is to raze cities for the gold. Good luck.

 

[CoZe]

the only way I can win on emperor is early rush/oracle-COL combinations and a few more religions if I get some prophets. If I get less than 3 religions I consider myself failed.

 

[brades]

I avoid religons like the plague on emperor level because if you end up with a giant religous trading bloc you can pretty much kiss any victory goodbye because theyll tech so fast because they basically give away techs to eachother. If you are using the shrines for your economy than there are some basic flaws in your economic strategy. And remember you can always take those shrines later since emperor requires almost constant war to win consistently.

 

[TheLee]

these are soem nice pointers.

i've got to say, after looking at the intermediate tactics and gambit section on level jumping (note: the one in the war academy isn't up to date, so i was a bit confused for a while), it put me in the right mindset - instead of trying to do everything i did in monarch (which, i guess i can now remember, i was only able to do in the first place cause i got alot of practice with monarch), i just streamlined my play to the barebones - more whip-intesnive early axe rush for harrassment, city capturing (which was still a bit shaky, so it'll be something to practice), no worrying about early wonders (like stonehenge, parthenon, or great library... much less pyramids), beelining down to liberalism with aggressive diplomacy and tech trading for the rest when I can instead of trying to research techs myself, and it looks like (barring any random declaration of war soon) i'm on my way to either a lucky diplomacy (provided napoleon gets enough population to become the other contender so that gilgamesh votes for me instead of himself) or a somewhat challenging space race victory - not shabby for a second try.

but man, emperor's rough! i was at 0% research for much of the mid-game (thank god for SE) and my empire wasn't really that large at all (3 settled cities plus 3 captured ones; i settled a few more later when i could afford it). oh well, i guess it's great that civ 4 is basically a different game at every difficult level - and just when I was starting to get complacent

 

[pxpdoo]

I find it useful to alternate Rock Band drums on expert, when I need a break, and v.v....

 

[pxpdoo]

I avoid religons like the plague on emperor level because if you end up with a giant religous trading bloc you can pretty much kiss any victory goodbye because theyll tech so fast because they basically give away techs to eachother. If you are using the shrines for your economy than there are some basic flaws in your economic strategy. And remember you can always take those shrines later since emperor requires almost constant war to win consistently.

Oh come on, guy, HAVE to have a religion for the military themes...
"No Tech Brokering" is a basic for my games...

 

[pxpdoo]

And to all, how much risk are we willing to take, as a supposed Nation-Builder? Or, perhaps more accurately, how much risk are we, personally, really willing to take?
(Perhaps I'm too immersed in Hx...)

 

[Rvil Plum]

Yes, it' a very, very different game at the higher difficulty levels, and you have to unlearn a lot of the tried and tested tactics / strategies that you learned to the lower difficulty levels, because they simply won't work any more.

The easiest type of win, providing you know how to do it, is a culture victory, and once you do know how to do it, the same basic culture strategy works at Immortal and Deity, although obviously they are even more mind boggling difficult.

The key to the higher difficulty levels are:

1) Minimise your mistakes.
2) Plan ahead big time.
3) Work the diplomacy screen to your advantage.
4) The use of a few key Wonders, depending on what type of victory you are going for.
5) To genuinely understand that before you can win, you have to stop the AI from winning. If you didn't build any or many wonders, then 1 - 3, (usually 3), of the AI will get a culture victory before you can launch, so you have to plan on stopping them, or slowing them. Needless to say, if you can build a reasonable number of wonders yourself, then that in itself slows the AI. You also have to stop one military AI from getting a Dom win, as one of them will be going for it big time. If they are on the same continent as you, then you should be able to handle that problem yourself. You don't have to utterly conquer them, just 100% neutralise them. If they are on another continent, then identify who the power player is early on, and try and use diplomacy with the other civs to neutralise them or at least slow them down. Last but not least, whilst you have to deal with all the AI going for culture and dom victories first, at least one AI will out tech you, so they will launch first, if you don't do something to stop them.

If you are going for a space race, and playing on a normal continents map with normal settings, then get really paranoid about point 5 above, because you have to deal with the other civs at the higher difficulty levels, if you are to have any chance of winning. Just dealing with one or two, won't cut the ice. You have to deal with all of the major players, and you have to sop them from getting their win, before you launch.

Regards - Mr P

 

[DilithiumDad]

I win monarch easily, but have never won on Emperor, although I ahve gotten close. You are always behind in tech and facing huge enemy Stacks of Doom, and the AI trades tech between each other like crazy but won't trade with you unless it's a real steal for them. Forget about wonders and founding religions. A lot of the fun elements seem to be lost at Emperor, at least for me, so I have gone back to Monarch and focused on winning earlier.

 

[NoAnswer]

I've won just about every game I've played on emperor, unless I had an exceptionally bad starting location or something. I've also been able to do so without constantly being at war, and without an early axe-rush, so take those suggestions with whichever kind of salt you prefer.

emperor is a difficulty level at which you shouldn't be tense. It doesn't require any of these popular borderline exploit maneuvers. You can just relax as long as you play your cards right. Any kind of victory will work.

Put some thought into the leader you pick. I never play protective and philosophical, and I still don't understand how imperialistic is even any good at all unless you're on a large map.

It's very important to be flexible as regards your early technological priorities. If you're at sea with two clams, you should switch to building a work boat as soon as you get Fishing, and Fishing should be the first thing you research. Also, it's good to save your chops for after you've mined and farmed the major resources in your capital (ex. wheat, copper). And you should be open to putting off roads sometimes.

IT WILL BE OK

 

[brades]

Oh come on, guy, HAVE to have a religion for the military themes...
"No Tech Brokering" is a basic for my games...

I'm not saying I run paganism until free religon, Im saying I dont found any because if the AI founds a religon they will most likely stick to that religon regardless of the diplomacy situation, which will cause them to war with there heathen neighbors. I adopt the dominant religon of my neighbors.

 

[brades]

I've won just about every game I've played on emperor, unless I had an exceptionally bad starting location or something. I've also been able to do so without constantly being at war, and without an early axe-rush, so take those suggestions with whichever kind of salt you prefer.

emperor is a difficulty level at which you shouldn't be tense. It doesn't require any of these popular borderline exploit maneuvers. You can just relax as long as you play your cards right. Any kind of victory will work.

Put some thought into the leader you pick. I never play protective and philosophical, and I still don't understand how imperialistic is even any good at all unless you're on a large map.

It's very important to be flexible as regards your early technological priorities. If you're at sea with two clams, you should switch to building a work boat as soon as you get Fishing, and Fishing should be the first thing you research. Also, it's good to save your chops for after you've mined and farmed the major resources in your capital (ex. wheat, copper). And you should be open to putting off roads sometimes.

IT WILL BE OK

After reading your post I don't believe you play at emperor, and if you do are you stacking the deck in your favor by choosing different settings? playing on tiny maps? Your only attempt at advice was not playing with protective or philosophical leaders which are very strong traits, and to tech fishing first...
If you win on emperor all the time with minimal effort please enlighten us with your strategy, or give an example of a game you played. Emperor is not easy and will have you in a war at somepoint or another whether it being to take out an opponent, stop an AI from victory, or being dogpiled because montezuma was bribed to attack you.
'You have won a fishing victory!'

 

[TheMeInTeam]

When I was making the jump to emperor, I also started a thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=271411

Much of the advice there gave me the boost I needed. A couple other things:

REX and get as many cities as you can. Axe rush, workers/settlers, etc. Whatever it takes. Depending on your situation you may want certain wonders (pyramids, oracle, Great lighthouse, stonehenge, whatever). I usually only make one or zero of these wonders in a game, rarely I'll go for two if the map is really favorable (like, gold and stone nearby or something). Also, the more room you have to expand the more you can afford going for wonders.

Anyway, as you REX use libraries and specialists to keep research up, since your slider will plummet at emperor. It's not a big deal if it does if you get enough research to keep going.

Research techs you can trade. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. YOU CAN TECH SUPER CRAPPY AND STILL KEEP UP/CATCH UP. If you go into the strategy and tips forum, check out the LHC XXI game. Players there start isolated as Qin of China. I played that at emperor and was very, very far behind at 1355 AD, losing liberalism, circumnavigation, and researching education while one AI could research scientific method. I messed up in that game because I didn't run enough scientist specialists early, wanting to rely too much on pure commerce.

Trades can bring you back in a hurry. Always research techs you can trade if you can do so (which is almost always if you have good diplomacy). After a few tech trades and so forth I caught up and surpassed the smaller city count AI's and the ones that had been warring. I took rifles to longbows and later infantry to rifles, grabbing more land than any other civ.

That doesn't have to occur that way though. If you're not isolated, get better beakers, etc, you can stay ahead of the tech curve on emperor even if warring (i've seen players do it on immortal), or if you're fortunate/cause other wars even while doing so. Eventually with good #'s of cities you can overrun the AI regardless.

Space is possible on all difficulty levels. I've seen numerous players do it in the immortal university thread.