Enemy AI's cooperating?

[Heerlo]

Hello everyone.

I was just wondering about this.In my current game I've been playing on prince and just living peacefully for a while and minding my own business.I'm not warlike, so I think almost every other civ(if not everyone)has been at friendly status with me, and no one has dow'd me in quite a while.

The French were to the north of me on a continent that I think may have been connected by land to my continent, and they also had some land right to the north of me on my continent.The Ottomans were on the continent with me.

One day I noticed some French troops out in the ocean, and it worried me slightly.But they didn't dow me, instead they dow'd The Ottomans.Then, a little bit later, The French and the Ottomans both declared war on me at the same time, and I think they were still at war with each other!

Has anyone had anything like this happen to them?Could they have made a deal to declare war on me together, and followed through with it even though they went to war?Or is it just coincidence?

 

[SpyGuy77]

Yeah. I notice two civs at war with each other and at the exact same time declare war on someone else, in my Warlord games

 

[FeiLing]

The AI doesn't care about being ganked/flanked. They'll dow upon whoever they hate (most likely at least you).

Just had Rome being at war with me (Mongol), Persia and Greece in the Major Gauntlet. I was sieging Rome with 5 units and what did he do? Declare war on Askia (his closest neighbor). Seems like he couldn't await his death

 

[Heerlo]

Ok.Thanks for the comments.

I think France and The Ottomans have made peace now, but I'm still at war with both of them!This is possibly the biggest war I've been in on Civ5.

 

[KokeenoPokameso]

It's Happened to me too I'm just sitting there as China going for a cultural victory when suddenly three of them dow me in one turn. I Don't remember If any of them were at war with each other at that time but I do remember two of them had been at war with each other countless times over the centuries. I guess my little cultural civ was just the mutual enemy they needed to put the differences aside.

In another game was was playing Elizabeth on a small Pangaea Map and my nearest neighbor was Bismark. After going on a war path taking American, Greece and City state cities the world (including me) turned on him and eventually he was left win one city near his original capital. Since I didn't want to be labeled as a "warmonger" I left him with the one city tucked at the corner of my empire at one end of the continent. What struck me is how often the other civ's kept on dow him and denouncing him when and asking me to dow him as though he was still a major player in the political field.

 

[Nevyn]

The AI have very simple rules about what is what. Does a civ covet your land? Are you trying to win the same way they do? Are you competing for wonders? Are you competing for the same CS as they are? Have you been to war? With me and my friends? Do you have friends I don't like much?

As the questions boils down to yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, no, yes, yes, no, no, yes, with mostly yes, taken with the random backstab, no civ AI can be trusted.

I don't think there is code that tries to figure out if your enemies enemy could be you friend. The AI simply isn't built for 'strategy'. So instead of trying to figure out how the AI 'thinks', which it isn't, just keep your sci strong and your army even stronger.

One trick is to never declare friendship, just go about it alone. That makes the AI less of a psychopath. =)

The AI is inherently flawed. With God & Kings the added religion and espionage will make it able for them to fix the diplomacy system somewhat. They probably won't be able to 'fix it' but the new dimensions can add a 'smudge-factor' that let's the AI behave less insane.

An easy fix would be to allow for a player to bribe and help other civs over time. There is too much negative penalties and very few positive ones. - You returned a worker, I liked that, but covet your lands even more. Hate!

But don't forget. Just by starting a game, having a capital and expand in any way, the AI will hate you for it. The best way of staying friends is just to not play the game in the first place. =)

 

[Nevyn]

My initial mistake as a newbie was to build a tall empire, forgetting to build troops. Now all other civs covet my land and wonders and I only have a few archers at best. I learned that even as tall, with no intention of going to war; I do need to take time from wonder building and build/buy a standing army just for show off. - Don't mess with me, crazy AI!

 

[Heerlo]

The AI have very simple rules about what is what. Does a civ covet your land? Are you trying to win the same way they do? Are you competing for wonders? Are you competing for the same CS as they are? Have you been to war? With me and my friends? Do you have friends I don't like much? =)

In response to your questions, I don't think either of them said they coveted my land.I have all victories turned off, so that couldn't, or, at least, shouldn't be the case.I don't think they said anything about me building wonders they coveted.I had three city states allies, and they said nothing about competing for them either, at least not that I saw. I had never been at war with the French or The Ottomans.Before that I had only been at war with the Mongols and the Siamese, and I'm not sure if the Ottomans even liked either one of them.And I have not made a DOF all game.


I think I may actually get along better with AI's when I don't make DOFs with anyone.lol

But them being at war with each other and then declaring war on me at the exact same time is just strange.

 

[KokeenoPokameso]

Just don't dry to understand the AI, it'll give a migraine. Just know than any civ can do any thing at any time.

 

[azzaman333]

I haven't seen anything from the civ5 AI to suggest it's even remotely competent.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I had Isabella and Harald go to war at the same time (or was it Isabella and Kammy?)

 

[Brigg]

The ai uses the same logic for each civ, but with slightly different weights. Their army buildup probably made youu extremely weak by comparison. Noone starts a fight with the guy chopping chum at the beach.

 

[Nevyn]

I think it is army weakness that tips the point.

 

[Camikaze]

I'm out of practice so have forgotten if the AI actually do this or not, but it sounds like they made an agreement to attack you in 10 turns? Just like they sometimes try and make such agreements with you?

 

[Heerlo]

I'm out of practice so have forgotten if the AI actually do this or not, but it sounds like they made an agreement to attack you in 10 turns? Just like they sometimes try and make such agreements with you?

That's what I thought might have happened.But could they have went to war with each other and still followed through with a deal like that?

And I have had this happen before with two civs that were not at war with each other.

 

[nitevision]

I think it's a case of both AI players recognising the third player as weak, and declaring war at almost the same time.

But then again I've had Suleiman DoW me when I was 7 - 8 times his army strength. And just recently Oda bankrupted himself back into the stone age, started spamming Warriors and declared war on the Aztecs along with Napoleon and I.

So I gues FeiLing is right then- the AI DoWs whoever he/she wants to, and "cooperation" may be just coincidence.

Another thing that may affect this would be the DoF thing- one guy declares war on the other, and soon 3-4 civs are killing each other.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I do notice that I am getting more and more declared war on by more than just a single civ.. that has rarely ever happened... I do think it's not out of the question that they do go War together, but I think it's just good timing that Sul and the other guy declared war on you at the same time despite being war at each other.

 

[Heerlo]

I think it's a case of both AI players recognising the third player as weak, and declaring war at almost the same time.
.

That could have been the case.

According to my military advisor I was not as strong as the Ottomans and I think(according to him)that I may have been about as strong or maybe a little weaker than France.

But, still, I was probably more powerful than most of the other civs.

I do notice that I am getting more and more declared war on by more than just a single civ.. that has rarely ever happened... I do think it's not out of the question that they do go War together, but I think it's just good timing that Sul and the other guy declared war on you at the same time despite being war at each other.

That could have been, too.

But I wonder if they may have made a deal to declare war on me, then after that declared war on each other, but still followed through with their deal.

But I don't know what really happened.