Enough ressources for a peacefull game

[aeldrik]

What I really hate about the actual ressource system is the fact that they are less ressources than players... I thought the game was also about peacefull coexistance... They should be a setting allowing for the number of ressources to be set prior to starting the game... I peacefull game would have more resources than CIVS, while a War game would be just the other way around

 

[Arathorn]

Why have resources at all if everybody has one? That's just silly. There's no game element there at all.

Arathorn

 

[sealman]

I agree with Arathorn

 

[judgement]

Originally posted by Arathorn
Why have resources at all if everybody has one? That's just silly. There's no game element there at all.

Aeldrik didn't say everyone would have one, just that there would be enough for everyone (number of each resource > number of civs). My neighbor might have more than his share, and I might have none, in which case I'd have the option of either trading for one of his extras or invading to take one of his extras. The game element is still there, nothing silly about it.

The problem with the current setup (# resource < # civs) is that I might have none and nobody else has a surplus! In that case, trade isn't an option - my only choice is to go to war. Now, personally, I'm happy to "correct" my neighbor's surplus by force of arms, but builder-types (my wife is one) are out of luck when trading is not an option. Aeldrik's suggestion would just make sure that both trade and warfare were viable means to get what you need. Since resources tend to be "clustered," increasing their number slightly would probably not decrease the excuses for warfare much at all: the civs without would still be without, but the civs with a resource would be more likely to have an extra. If you like peace, you try to trade it from them, if you like war, you take it by force, but both options should be viable, so that all types of players can be happy.

 

[aeldrik]

thx to judgement for the explanations, he is right is all he says.
but he forgot one point:

One really Important gameplay issue of having ressources even if everyone has them, is the fact that you can bomb/destroy the road and thereby make the ressource unavailable...
This was one of the main reasons for the introductions of ressources by the Team, making players have to defend the land around the cities, this would still be given!

 

[Shyrramar]

Aeldrik: I agree. Have you checked my suggestion for a new resource-model? It is supposed to address this problem among others, although it is not explicitly said there. It is just simply stupid that some modern nations would completely lack oil. Now point me any country that couldn't have any oil if it wanted (and show me a country that didn't want oil ). And in Civ we are actually talking about the best of nations, the few most influental nations.

 

[sealman]

Judgement: I have never noticed resorces being clustered, only luxaries. But that may just be observations in my games and not the norm.

Other than that, your point is well taken.

 

[aeldrik]

yes, I checked it (at least your first post) and it is quite good, even though I would rather go for a system saying 1 tile allows you to support a certain number of units instead of producing a certain number (as an oil field, f.e. produces so many barrels a year which are used by so many units...)

 

[Shyrramar]

Aeldrik: There's a lot of thinking done in that thread. If you have the time, read it through. My point is actually that an oil-field allows a certain number of units. It is actually a sort of simplified supporting system. 50 oils means you can have 50 oil-based units at any given time. It has no effect on producing the units, only to the unit gap. But, as I said, this has been thought quite thoroughly in the thread. Go ahead, jump into the fray and make your own suggestions!

 

[enigma2010]

I agree that there should be a more balanced distribution of resources, but I also feel that the current system we have in Civ3 does indeed mimic what we see in the real world (albeit in a flawed manner). Obviously, any country can buy essential resources (oil, iron, etc) if they're willing to pay the right price. However, it's not the availability of the resource, but the quantity that causes to go to war over them. Witness the Iraqi war last year - although the U.S. had several suppliers available, we still had to attack Iraq to ensure a stable and plentiful supply. Since the resource quantity and cost per unit might make the game unnecessarily complicated, Civ3 ensures we have resource wars by having some civs with no resources!

 

[SideshowBob]

I also think there is a problem with the resources. If you want to play a fast game on a tiny map it is even possible that some resuorces never pop up Or that they are so limited that you can't buy them, and a war is not a good idea if you're playing an OCC.

 

[Tucker from RvB]

They should be a setting allowing for the number of ressources to be set prior to starting the game

I like this idea. However, I think being able to adjust the diversity of resources would be better. This would encourage more trading and wars for resources if one continent had a lot of horces, and anouther continent had a lot of iron. It might also be a good idea to be able to adjust the diversity of terrain types to provide for a more even playing field. Both of these features I believe exist in the game, "Civilization: Call to Power".

 

[Colonel]

Aeldrik: It is just simply stupid that some modern nations would completely lack oil. Now point me any country that couldn't have any oil if it wanted (and show me a country that didn't want oil ).

Congo, Zaire, Madagascar, Luxemburg, and Federated States of Micronesia

all of these have no oil and some of which have no need for it (The Long named country its islands) and before you say it those countries have no national stock piles\supplies of oil not to say someone within the countries doesnt have a car


also i have to add the less resourses the better (I LOVE WAR) if you have to many then its pointless although i do understand where peace loveing ppl come from. the setting idea is good for all ppl

 

[Tholish]

You can create your own scenario with the resources however common you like. Use the editor. High numbers mean there's a lot of it or that it jumps a lot. You can even make luxuries available in almost all areas, like strategic resources. What's really wrong is that its all or nothing. You either have a connection to it, or you don't. There's no measurement of how much of the stuff there is or how much is being used, except that you have to have multiple iterations of it to trade it. To do this might add complexity, but really it would have far reaching side effects and multiple functionality that might be worth it.

 

[Chaos_BF1942]

I kinda agree, with this. I don't mind liberating resources from my enemy, but in my current game I think there is a total lack of Aluminum on the planet, I can't find it anywhere, and it the only resource I don't have.


Also have anyone ever seen Iron and Coal together. I want to build the Iron Works but never been able to build it.

 

[Colonel]

i say have a scenerio in Civ4 where each person gets one supply of a different strtegic resourse so one person would have iron and be very powerful in the late ancient and early to mid dark age another with saltpeter would be dominant until rifleman and so on and so forth

 

[Quasar1011]

I kinda agree, with this. I don't mind liberating resources from my enemy, but in my current game I think there is a total lack of Aluminum on the planet, I can't find it anywhere, and it the only resource I don't have.

Also have anyone ever seen Iron and Coal together. I want to build the Iron Works but never been able to build it.

Try some user-created maps, like mine. I always make a few spots per map where an Iron Works is possible.

 

[Dogzilla]

One of my favorite parts of the game is the scramble for seemingly-useless, corruption-ridden bits of land far from my capitol, which usually end up being my only source of oil or rubber later on. However, a random map setting (akin to adjusting the level of barbarian activity) for resources would suit different styles of play.

 

[CiverDan]

Maybe this could be randomized...make it possbile to hasve ample resources some games, but very scarce in others.

 

[T.rex]

Having searched this site I noticed discussions on resource and many have been already suggested by others. Also, someone named "Amra" (of Conan the Barbarian fame) compiled several resource types on another thread. I've decided to add a few of my own for future referrence for game modders as well as for the people at Fireaxis. This was the best thread I could find to post my suggestions. Thanks.

Resources

Titanium: A strategic resource. Used to make advanced modern military units mainly tanks and aircraft and possibly space craft components. +3 hammers. Requires Mine.

Tin: Strategic Resource. Required to make bronze. +3 hammers. Requires Mine.

Plutonium: A strategic resource. Used for fission and fission/fusion based weapons. Possibly as for fusion based weapons. +2 hammers, +4 gold. Requires Mine.

Platinum: A luxury resource. Used to make fin jewlery. May also be a strategic resource. +4 hammers, +7 gold, +1 happy. Requires Mine.

Nickel: A strategic resource. Used in several industrial possesses sinse the late 19th/early 20th centuries. Also required for WWI and WWII era units as well as batteries for electricity. Nickel is also used in steel production. +4 hammers. Requires Mine.

Zinc: Stategic resouce. Needed to make brass with copper. Again used in several industrial processes. Also for music (instraments), coinage, churches (toll bells) and shells for tanks, artillary as well as munitions in general. Also used in some early gunpower units. +3 hammers. Requires Mine.

The following food resources would add some "colour" to the game.

Garlic (good for health): +3 health, +1 food. Requires Farm

Dates, figs, apples, cherries/berries, oranges, pinnaples and coconuts: +1 food, +2 health each. Requires Plantation or Orchard.

Tea: +1 happy face, +2 gold. Requires Tea Plantation.

Game birds (grouse, turkey, duck, pheasent etc...): +2 food, +1 health. Requires Farm.

Bison/buffalo: +2 food, +2 hammers. Requires Ranch.

Camels: A strategic resource for camel based units. +2 hammers, +1 gold. Requires Pasture.

Furthermore, many food/animal/plant based resources should be situated according to climate. Some resources may also be rarer (harder to come by) than others.