Equality PBEM

[predesad]

DogBoy, I am also almost done with my test and also have not noticed any problems, i will try to answer your questions as best i can:

Is the cossack and siphai supposed to upgrade to panzer? I never noticed that but they do this time.

yes, nobody objected when i suggested that in the upgrade chain so i left it in

I think the answer is because there is no replacement for infantry, mech infantry, battleships, etc... but I just wanted to be sure

yeah, you figured that out, i only took out units which had uu replacing them, otherwise in industrial / modern age we would have no units to build except panzers and F - 15, how can you possibly try to defend against panzer with musketeers, which is the strongest defensive uu, other than panzers themselves

If everybody wants to go with the knight based UUs

everybody, yourself included voted for knight based uu to have GA, perhaps you meant to vote no.

Can I get a resource?

i have been worried about that, i have not changed any of the settings, but i am going to generate a few maps w/ the editor and see how resource distribution goes. you do have a point about it being an equality PBEM everyone should have roughly equal opportunity to nab resources, but unless someone finds someone who can reliably set up the game with the scenario, genarate the map exactly how we want it and check exact placement of resources this is just a gamble. any proposed solutions are welcome. in general this map just seemed totally devoid of resources, like i said i will generate a few maps in the editor with these same settings and see if there is a problem i have not noticed.

there is a method by which i can increase the number of resources, but in doing so the number of bonus resources would decrease proportionally to the number of other resources added. for example, if i altered the distribution of all strategic resources so that we had 2 more of each, then as a whole that would reduce the number of total bonus resources by that same number, which would not be that big a deal, IMHO, but let me do some looking at generated maps before i try to do that.

You can't upgrade all the way at one time

basically because this is a different concept from what i have seen before i cannot confirm this or cite a source, but it IMHO, this is because yuo are upgrading from a UU to another UU, and so the upgrade sort of stalls. IIRC, once you get a GA then you can upgrade all the way, for example, the hoplite stalled at musketeer because the musketeer was a golden age producing unit. it has been a long toime since i have played with the units this way, but basically that is a theory and there is nothing i can do about it, just dont wait until the lst minute to upgrade otherwise those panzers will roll over that musketeer you thought was going to be a mechanical infantry.

i plan on posting a detailed list of changes and explanation of those changes including the reason behind them either tonight or tomorrow night, and the game will be started at the same time, giving just a little time to see if someone comes up with a solution about resources, or if when i generate a map i get a different result, i really think this was just a fluke.

 

[predesad]

okay, regarding the map herre is what i found, and it is what i initially suspected, the amount of generated strtegic resources is porgrammed to correspond to the number of players in the game. for example, when i generate a huge map / 16 players i get between 12-18 of each resource, some resources are set so that there is not enough for eveyone, uranium for example. when i generate huge map / 8 players which is what we will have i get between 6-10 of each resource. In the test we had only 4 players, so even though it was a huge map there were fewer resources. I used civ multitool to actually give me the map stats.

I am ready to start the game tonight, will not have time today, want to get my write up done on all the changes first. In the meantime, without additionally testing, does anyone want me to modify the resource distribution so there are more resources, with a simple change the map would generate more strategic / luxury resources, this slightly reduces the total number of bonus resources but greatly helps assure each player has an opportunity to get each resource, i am neutral and dont care.

Additionally, deshelbr, do you want custom information for your tribe, rubberjello & i are going to have custom information.

mine & jello's examples

NAME: Predesad
FORMAL: Predesadians
NOUN: Predesadtopia
ADJECTIVE: Predesadian
TITLE: Chief Justice

NAME: Rubberjello
FORMAL: Jellians
NOUN: Jellotopia
ADJECTIVE: Jelloian
TITLE: Jello Master

 

[DogBoy]

I vote we bump up the strategic resources a little bit. If we have as many strategic resources as what I just tested, the game will be completely unfair for some people. It's just a lottery, cross your fingers, and hope you win.

 

[predesad]

Originally posted by DogBoy
I vote we bump up the strategic resources a little bit. If we have as many strategic resources as what I just tested, the game will be completely unfair for some people. It's just a lottery, cross your fingers, and hope you win.

even if i dont bump the resources up we will have more than what was tested, the test was a 4 player, the game will be 8 player.

 

[deshelbr]

I'd be cool with this:

NAME: Deshelbr
FORMAL: Watusi
NOUN: Watusi
ADJECTIVE: Watusi
TITLE: Big Daddy

How's that?

 

[predesad]

The game is underway, I have sent the turn to Rubberjello. Do not be afraid to ask for a restart if you get a bad start, middle of jungle or something. If you get a really good start be sure to let me know so I can claim to have a bad start and restart. Here is the turn order and settings information:

Predesad (Iroquois) (Predesadtopia) predesad AT yahoo DOT com

Japan

Rubberjello (Germany - not pink) (Jellotopia)
rubberjello AT yahoo DOT com

Russia

Deshelbr (Persia) (Watusi) deshelbr AT yahoo DOT com

Carthage

DogBoy (Americans) ("you will all know who I am when I steamroll you" quoted from his response when asked for custom information) greeneclan AT mchsi DOT com

This is a huge, normal climate, temperate, 4 billion year old continents world with 60% water and raging barbarians on demigod difficulty. Victory conditions are: domination, conquest, space race, and culture. No respawn AI, or culturally linked starts, AP is off, cultural conversions on, random seed is preserved.

Here is a very detailed list of changes with explanations and is being compiled as I look both at the list of changes I made and at the editor to help verify I do not omit any changes. I recommend you copy and paste this into a wordpad document so you can have esay access to it during the PBEM. I will follow the editor in listing the changes made, with some deviation, units will be listed last, improvement immediately before that because those screens had the most changes.

I) Citizens: no changes

II) Civilizations

A) Favorite and Shunned Government both changed to none

-certain civs will favor certain governments in diplomacy based on these settings, they will also tend to operate under a certain gov't based on these settings instead of picking what might be best for them, or so I ma told. Eliminating this setting was equalizing.

B) Aggresion levels set to average

-consensus of questionnaire

C) all Civ Traits given

-part of equalization

D) Governor Settings removed except for manage citizens and manage production

-with governor settings, each civ would still tend to act or build according to their trait instead of their situation

E) Culture Group changed to American for everyone

-this setting may only be graphic in nature and relate to starting locations if the option is turned on, however, I was uncertain if it had any affect on diplomacy so I equalized it, American was first on list, easiest to change to, hence the reason for making them all American. Originally it was none, but game would not play with this setting.

F) Free Techs: ceremonial burial and pottery

-although I initially polled the players, when setting up the test I changed my mind and went completely with my own thoughts. Basically, warrior code, the wheel and bronze working provide several additional units so I left those out. Alphabet lets you build a boat besides being the highest cost starting tech so I left it out. Masonry does not provide any units and I was going to include it, but thought instead to leave it with two starting techs and thought pottery and ceremonial burial would provide the best benefits as starting techs while giving no additional units. IIRC, the enkidu warrior, scout and chasqui scout are the only units available to start.

III) Civilization Advances

-bonus tech given to first player who discovers philosophy removed

IV) Combat Experience: no changes

V) Culture: no changes

VI) Difficulty Levels

A) overall corruption reduced to 80% from 100%

- this applies only to distance corruption, changed per poll / personal opinion

B) % of optimal cities increased from 70% to 100%

- optimal cities on huge world is 36, old settings means after 25 cites, all other cities are absolutley corrupt, at 100% we get the full 36 cities, changed per poll / personal opinion

**note, this apples to for demigod difficulty and huge world in this example, but similar changes made for all difficulty levels and will apply to different world sizes differently in playing other games with this scenario

VII) Diplomats and Spies: no changes

VIII) Eras: no changes

IX) Flavors: no changes

X) General Settings

A) Basic Barbarian Archer replaces Warrior

B) Advanced Barbarian Medieval Infantry replaces Horseman

C) Barbarian Boat Caravel replaces Galley

D) Cities needed to support an army reduced from 4 to 3

XI) Governments: no changes

XII) Natural Resources

A) Ivory renamed elephants and switched from luxury to strategic. Instead of provides 2 commerce now provides 1 food, 1 shield, and 2 commerce.

-basically i just personally feel the extra food / shield more accurately reflect what elephants can provide and can be used as a strategic resource for war elephants, and it is already required for Statue of Zeus. For game purposes, I decided to make elephants abundant nough for one resource per civ with no chance of disappearing.

B) Tobacco changed from bonus to luxury resource, commerce bonus increased from 1 to 2.

-this change was made to replace ivory as a luxury and give the same values.

C) Distribution values altered as follows to maximize chances of available resources for equalizing:

1) Horses: 160 to 240
2) Iron: 160 to 240
3) Saltpeter: 120 to 180
4) Coal: 120 to 180
5) Oil: 120 to 180
6) Rubber: 120 to 180
7) Aluminum: 120 to 180
8) Uranium: 100 to 150
9) Elephants: 160
10) Wines: 100
11) Furs: 100
12) Dyes: 100
13) Incense: 100
14) Spices: 100
15) Silks: 100
16) Gems: 100
17) Tobacco : 100

-these distribution settings typically genaerated a map with about 14 horses / iron, and 9-10 of other strategic resources as well as 6-7 of each luxury, up from 4-5. This caused about only a 10% reduction in the total number of bonus resources and I felt it was a good trade off, just don't count on your opponent not having resources. I cannot comment upon the actual number of resources in the game map because I feel it would be unethical for me to use the civmultitool program to look at that map even just to get the stats.

XIII) Terrain: no changes

XIV) Worker Jobs: no changes

XV) World Sizes: no changes

XVI) Improvements and Wonders

-all Great Wonders changed to Small Wonders, except the UN. Build costs, culture generated not changed for any wonder, also the tourist attraction feature not changed for any wonder. All expirations removed, wonders will not become obsolete.

A) Pyramids: acts as granary & hospital in this city, 1 content citizen this city

-debated between acting as an aqueduct or hospital, however I felt the benefits of having an ancient age wonder which would allow a city to grow past size 2 (12 citizens) would better justify the cost of the wonder with all the attributes being city specific. A city must be size 2 (7 or more citizens) before being able to build this wonder. It is still possible to build a hospital in a city which has the Pyramids, but it is unnecessary

B) Great Library: +2 free advances

C) Oracle: +1 content all cities, requires 5 temples

D) Great Wall: still gives barbarian combat bonus, +1 content all cities

-given better assurances against barbarians who in reality wiped out many ancient civilizations, it is not unreasonable for this wonder to give an extra content citizen. there was little else I could do with this wonder within the constraints of the editor

E) Sun Tzu's Art of War: veteran ground / sea / air units (this city); reduce war werainess all cities; requires 5 barracks

-effectively acts as a barracks, harbor, and airport in producing veteran units, the city which builds this wonder will have no need to build a barracks, units will be upgradable in this city without one and will still recover (heal) in one turn, however there are other benefits associated with harbors / airports which might lead you to build one of those in this city despite the presence of SunTzu's. Basically, there was little else to do with Sun Tzu's relating to war than reducing war weariness. Decided against being able to build armies from this city because given the cost of the wonder it would probably not be very beneficial, the military academy which does allow a city to build armies cost 2/3 as much to build by comparison. The militaristic trait should allow plenty of armies anyway.

F) Sistine Chapel: +3 content all cities, requires 5 cathedrals

G) Magellan's: +2 movement to boats

-this effect is cumulative with the Great Lighthouse, meaning each civ will have the opportunity to add a total of +3 to the movement rates of ships, a plus given the world size.

H) Hoover Dam: must be near river, coastal, increases food / trade / shields in water, production x 2, pollution decreased by 100 (all characteristics city specific)

-given the high cost to build and former benefits, wanted to make this a powerful wonder. In addition ot hte produciton bonus, you can still build a power plant which will add even more production bonus. It is very hard to imagine this city producing any pollution, but I do not know how the game will react regarding overall pollution of your entire civ relating to this wonder, it may only reduce / eliminte this cities pollution.

I) United Nations: given that there was no real characteristic relating to this wonder it was left as the only remaining Great Wonder to prevent error when accessing Great Wonders in the civilopedia. All traits have been removed, including culture, in addition the build cost was reduced to 1 so that if an AI was still alive and built it, it would not be wasting 100 turns on nothing. In addition, it is not capable of producing a GA because surely you should have already had one and all the flags have been removed which would have allowed it to give a GA for certain civ traits.

J) The Manhattan Project: although this wonder was not changed, the fact that it is now a small wonder instead of a Great Wonder means all civs will have to build this wonder individually in order to build their own nuclear weapons.

K) Temple of Artemis: +1 content all cities, requires 5 temples

L) Internet: +2 free advances, doubles research of city

-given the choice bewteen this wonder and the UN, ultimately I decided the Internet was in reality too influential to leave out of the game, I suppose others would argue the UN is as well, but IMHO the Internet has more far reaching effects. Since the Internet is very powerful in reality I made it a powerful wonder giving it two abilities instead of one.

XVII) Units (in order as listed in editor, includes list of all units and their upgrade whether the upgrade was changed or not, all units in game are available to all civs with the exception of barbarians units, all UU indicate if they give a GA or not.)

1) Settler - NC
2) Worker - NC
3) Scout - upgrade to conquistador / available to all
4) Explorer - removed
5) Marine - NC / no upgrade
6) Modern Paratrooper - NC / no upgrade
7) Warrior - removed, though might be popped from huts, not verified / upgrade to legionary
8) Archer - given to barbarians
9) Spearman - removed
10) Swordsman - removed
11) Chariot - removed
12) Horseman - removed
13) Pikeman - removed
14) Longbowman - NC / upgrade to guerilla
15) Musketman - removed
16) Knight - removed
17) Rifleman - NC / upgrade to infantry
18) Cavalry - removed
19) Infantry - NC / upgrade to mechanical infantry
20) Tank - removed
21) Mechanical Infanry - NC / no upgrade
22) Modern Armor - NC / no upgrade
23) Catapult - NC / upgrade to trebuchet
24) Cannon - removed
25) Artillery - NC / upgrade to radar artillery
26) Radar Artillery - NC / no upgrade
27) Cruise Missile - NC / no upgrade
28) Tactical Nuke - NC / no upgrade
29) ICBM - given only to predesad / no upgrade
30) Galley - removed
31) Caravel - geiven to barbarians
32) Frigate - removed
33) Galleon - NC / upgrade to transport
34) Ironclad - NC / upgrade to destroyer
35) Transport - NC / no upgrade
36) Carrier - NC / no upgrade
37) Submarine - NC / no upgrade
38) Destroyer - NC / no upgrade
39) Battleship - NC / no upgrade
40) AEGIS Cruiser - NC / no upgrade
41) Nuclear Submarine - NC / no upgrade
42) Fighter - upgrade to F-15
43) Bomber - NC / no upgrade
44) Jet Fighter - removed
45) Stealth Fighter - NC / no upgrade
46) Stealth Bomber - NC / no upgrade
47) Leader - NC / no upgrade
48) Army - NC / no upgrade
49) Jaguar Warrior - no GA / upgrade to Gallic Swordsman
50) Bowman - no GA / upgrade to Longbowman
51) Hoploite - no GA / upgrade to Swiss Mercenary
52) Impi - no GA / upgrade to Swiss Mercenary
53) Legionary - no GA / upgrade to Guerilla
54) Immortals - no GA / upgrade to Guerilla
55) War Chariot - no GA / upgrade to Mounted Warrior
56) Rider - yes GA / upgrade to Sipahi
57) Mounted Warrior - no GA / upgrade to Keshik
58) Musketeer - yes GA / upgrade to rifleman
59) Samurai - yes GA / upgrade to cossack
60) War Elephant - yes GA / upgrade to Sipahi / requires elephants resource
61) Cossack - yes GA / upgrade to Panzer
62) Panzer - yes GA / upgrade to Modern Armor
63) Man-O-War - yes GA / upgrade to cruiser
64) F-15 - yes GA / no upgrade
65) Privateer - NC / no upgrade
66) Keshik - yes GA / upgrade to Ansar Warrior (note Mounted Warrior upgrades to Keshik, but will upgrade also to Ansar Warrior if you have both iron and horses, both are knight UU but Keshik requires only horses)
67) Conquistador - yes GA / no upgrade
68) Berserk - no GA / upgrade to Marine
69) Sipahi - yes GA / upgrade to Panzer
70) Gallic Sworsman - no GA / upgrade to Samurai
71) Ansar Warrior - yes GA / upgrade to Cossack
72) Numidian Mercenary - no GA / upgrade to Swiss Mercenary
73) Hwach'a - yes GA / upgrade to artillery
74) Medieval Infantry - given to barbarians
75) Guerilla - NC / upgrade to TOW Infantry
76) Princess or King units - not going to comment since this is not a regicide / capture the princess game
77) Enkidu Warrior - no GA / upgrade to Swiss Mercenary
78) Three-Man Chariot - no GA / upgrade to Mounted Warrior
79) Carrack - yes GA / upgrade to Galleon
80) Swiss Mercenary - no GA / upgrade to Musketeeer
81) Trebuchet - NC / upgrade to Hwach'a
82) Chasqui Scout - no GA / upgrade to Conquistador
83) Javelin Thrower - no GA / upgrade to Berserk
84) Dromon - no GA / upgrade to Carrack
85) Cruiser - NC / upgrade to AEGIS Cruiser
86) Crusader - NC / no upgrade (note still a generated unit only)
87) Ancient Cavalry - NC / no upgrade (note still a generated unit only)
88) Curragh - NC / upgrade to Dromon
89) Paratrooper - NC / upgrade to Modern Paratrooper
90) TOW Infantry - NC / no upgrade
91) Flak - NC / upgrade to Mobile SAM
92) Mobile SAM - NC / no upgrade

 

[predesad]

Here is the scenario file available for download to anyone who wants it, it had to be zipped otherwise it was not a valid file type.

 

[predesad]

In addition, here are two epic games available for download to anyone who wants. I recommend it to the players who are participating in this game to give you an idea of how these changes affect the game. Both games should have the exact same world, although possibly different computer opponents, per the world seed, the starts looked identical. One game is on emporer level, the other on monarchy level.

The Emporer level game will be in this post, Monarch in next, can only attach one file per post.

 

[predesad]

Monarch level epic game

 

[DogBoy]

So the map that we are playing the game on, is the same as this one that we can download? Ahh, makes it smart to get this and check out the world then

Just got done reading about the game. Everything looks good to me except for the units # 29. I think you meant to type DogBoy instead of Predesad, but I just needed to be sure. Also units # 86 and #87. I can't remember what we decided about those. Are those small wonders still in the game? I'm guessing they are but just wanted to be sure. Also, what about those wonders which are not listed here. I can't remember what we decided about those. Are they still going to give the same benefit without being called a great wonder and without giving a golden age?

 

[predesad]

So the map that we are playing the game on, is the same as this one that we can download? Ahh, makes it smart to get this and check out the world then

actually, no, there are two epic games to download which have the same map because i used an identical seed value for both games. these games are the same because in addiiton to the pbem, 2 other players have expressed interest in this game, plus eventually i hope to put this scenario in the creation forum or whatever it is called, once i do more with it. i thought it would be neat to have any interested players play the exact same map so we / they can comment / discuss the epic game and gave the option of 2 different difficulties, i am going to play it on emporer.

the PBEM has an independently generated map with no seed value, well it has a seed value because all the maps do, but i dont know what it is and have no way of finding out that i know of

Just got done reading about the game. Everything looks good to me except for the units # 29. I think you meant to type DogBoy instead of Predesad, but I just needed to be sure. Also units # 86 and #87. I can't remember what we decided about those. Are those small wonders still in the game? I'm guessing they are but just wanted to be sure. Also, what about those wonders which are not listed here. I can't remember what we decided about those. Are they still going to give the same benefit without being called a great wonder and without giving a golden age?

every wonder is in the game as a small wonder, except our useless UN (useless in the game not RL) the ones we did not discuss have the exact same qualities / effects as before, but as a small wonder will not give GA & is available to all. The ones we discussed had effects which could not be assigned to a small wonder per the editor settings, except for the great library, but giving that to everyone would have ruined the game.

SoZ & Knight's Templar are in, produce the same 2 units, & dont expire. i thought i had posted a question about them, but could not find it on the thread anywhere.

And unit #29 was actually given to everyone except the Americans, i can't remember exactly who has them...

 

[deshelbr]

I have to be honest, I love to play, but I don't like to read this much. I'm ready when you are.

 

[Rubberjello]

Well...I got an "interesting start". Not very bad. Not very good. I was wondering...since everyone has the seafaring trait, are we all going to start out coastal (which usually has a lesser chance of being a "killer" start position?

And if I start out 1 more PBEM game with no food bonus tiles in site.... GRRRRRR!!!

 

[predesad]

yeah, we should all start near coast, or have a very gooc chance of startin gnear coast at least, i know how you feel about no food bonus starts, i have gotten a lot of them lately, dont rmember for sure what my start looked like in this game, guess it must not have been too good if it was ont memorable

@deshelbr - know how you feel about reading, would have preferred to edit the civilopedia, but that would have been an additional download / install for the game and more chance of errors

 

[Rubberjello]

Alright! A much better start for me on the restart! I finally got a bonus food source in range for the first time in 6 PBEM game starts. Yeah!

Now....you other two better not fudge up this start by have a bad start yourselves!

 

[DogBoy]

RJ, I'm glad you got a better start. I have not yet seen my start, but it has to be better than what I had last time. It can't get any worse! I was the one that asked for a restart. I was on a river on the coast, but that was it. The first ring of tiles were desert. The next ring was a few hills with mostly mountains and one volcano. Had that volcano erupted, it would have wiped out my improvements. Once again, sorry for the restart but I didn't feel there was much I could have done with the game.

 

[Rubberjello]

That's understandable. Especially the Volcano. But remember, we're agricultural also, so Desert is not *that* bad, (but not that good either!)

 

[Rubberjello]

I was wondering whether people would want to talk about their opening moves here or not. The way I see it, with Raging Barbs and 4 AIs at a high difficulty level, this is less of a game *between* us, and more of a game of trying to survive and cooperating. I'm looking at this game as primarily one of exploration and seeing how all the modifications affect strategy.

Anyway, what is immediately evident is the tech cost increase of the larger map size. At max, it will be 37 turns for, say, Bronzeworking from turn 1. Even on my solo epic games I'm use to researching the first tech at max, then going to min. and using cash to buy from other civs. I don't know if that is going to work here, but I'll try the same strategy.
Also, with any Expansionist Civ, I usually build 2 other scouts straight off, then go for normal builds. With raging barbs on, I'm not to sure that will be advisable. The Chasqui is an option, but a fairly expensive one. The Inkidu is a very cheap, high-defense unit that could be used as a slow-moving explorer that the barbs will leave alone. I'll probably go 1 normal Scout, 1 Enk (defense) and then maybe a Chasqui, all the while researching at 100% on BW.

What are other's plans? (If you are willing to share)

 

[predesad]

sharing strategy is fine, as long as there are no attmepts to make any agreements before actual in game contact. noting like, "hey, you research this, i'll research that & if we meet soon we'll swap" in the early going through the middle ages i think you are right we are going to be trying to survive and if one or two men go down that will not look good for the rest of us.

Well, rubber, I must confess I think i have a slightly better commerce than you to start, because i am also researching BW at 100% & i am pretty sure its less than 37 turns. I don't typically use the "buy tech" strategy because i can usually predict where the AI (my first contacts anyway) will go, most of the time they go for the same things everyone has the same priority, i then research something else, hope i am right, and trade, after a couple contacts and good trading i get ahead, although the buy tech would work the same way and would probably work better here because at this difficulty we can't hope to keep up, at least not in the ancient age. but, when we do finally contact one another we should not have much trouble researching and trading to keep caught up, plus buying tech from AI.

my strategy is i dont have one. i am playing the epic game on emporer, and i have learned a few things. for instance, as starting units the AI has enkidu & chasqui, not sure how many they get at this difficulty level. factor in the scout they already get and if you dont put 2 scouts out quickly (i.e. build one) there are going to be no goody huts. in the epic game, i popped a settler on turn 2 or 3, had both those cities put out a scout ASAP for a total of 3. on this huge world w/ 3 scouts i have only got to pop 4 more huts after the first, good for a map, 25 gold, warrior code, and mysticism (although there are 16 opponents because i didnt think about changing it to 8 like the pbem, but lower difficulty means fewer starting units for each) so i am going for a scout ASAP.

after that i am going to gamble that the AI does not become aggressive during early expanison phase & build cheap enkidu's, then start on hoplites after BW for defense because i know the AI will not remain peaceful forever. i also plan to build a curragh when i get alphabet.

my main concern is the expansion phase, i am not sure about what path to follow. some people simply put out a settler at about the time they hit pop 3, rinse repeat, while i typically put out one settler quickly when i reach pop 3, then i build a granary before building next settler. it pays off in long run, but hurts in short term, only thing is there may not be a long run in this game. my second city i usually do same thing, settler at pop 3 then granary then more settlers. anyone got a better suggestion for this game, have never played demigod on huge world 8 civs, have not played much demigod or even emporer level period. if there's enough room to not get crunched during granary build delay it's worth it, because subsequent settlers are much quicker. i think i'll stick with that strategy.

 

[DogBoy]

My first unit is also the scout. I'm going to try and grab as much goody huts as possible. Even with raging barbs, I don't expect to see any for quite a while. Since everybody to include the AI is expansionist, no fear of popping barbs from huts. If I'm not mistaken (which I usually am), we really shouldn't see too many barbs until somebody hits the medieval age, then we are gonna be swarmed! As for my expansionist phase, I don't have a strat yet. Even though my start is better, it still almost sucks. No river in sight, no extra food, tundry close by (tells you where I might be), and I think one bonus grassland. It's gonna be tough but that's ok. I also have never played demi-god so I have no advice to offer on how the AI will be and how to work the techs. Since no matter which tech I would research was going to be any faster than 50 turns, I went with the most expensive tech. Bronze working and alphabet were both 50 turns and I couldn't get either one any faster. I'm hoping to meet some AIs and do some trading.

On a different note, I was thinking we should not have put any goody huts in this game at all. Since this is an "equality" game, someone might win the lottery, pop a settler, and get ahead that much faster. No, I don't want to make this game so even that it becomes boring, but settlers from goody huts falls into the same category as SGL which we were discussing getting rid of. I would have said something about this last week during the testing phase but I just thought of it last night while lying in bed (am I addicted or what?) Anyway, just my thoughts.