Europe-1871

[jbfballrb]

trying to get this one up....still have a lot of things to think about before even beginning to write it all.....

im attaching the Mind Map file where ive got everything cooked together. but basically...

The four powers with substantial turf off the map (Britain, Russia, Ottoman Empire, and France) have a wonder that places a production bonus in every city. In addition, Germany can build the same thing on discovery of Imperialism. The production bonuses are according to the size and usefulness (Britain has the most, and Russia and Turkey have the least). Also, each major region has a great wonder that can be built for it, some are pre-placed.

Civs:
4 Colonial Powers (Britain, France, Ottomans, Russia)
2 European Powers (Italy, Austria-Hungary)
13 Minor Powers (Spain, Portugal, Holland, Belgium, Serbia, Montenegro, Greece, Rumania, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland (worthwhile?), Luxembourg (again, worth it?)
Germany (special case, initially European Power but becomes Colonial Power)

that makes 20...i guess in that case Switz and Lux would be good to drop

some of the stuff im really looking for feedback and help on:
Religion--Christ and Islam, more details, or none at all?
Civics--For civ3, i was going to give each power its own government, to reflect on that itself. i dunno about the civics thing. also for the little guys.
Diplomacy--is it possible to code in something like "if aggressive naval build, britain get mad" or "if navy >1/2 britains, get really ticked" reflecting their natural jealously towards any who attempt to build a large navy
Leaders--esp France, and the little guys
Unique Units--Ive got some unique cavalry, but not much else.
Buildings and Triggers--Aside from those Imperial Wonders (and Colonial Wonders, which represent locations in the world) i dont have much in the way of buildings. and i wondered about triggers.

some more units. here are the generic ones i have:
Machine Gunner
Aeroplane
Armored Car
Howitzer
Submarine
Destroyer
Dreadnought
Pre-Dreadnought
Battle Cruiser
Light Cruiser
Armored Cruiser
Infantry
Cavalry
Heavy Artillery
Field Artillery

and definitely techs. i have a few (8)
Elan (France only)
Rail Guns (Germany only?)
Powered Flight
Master Plans (France and Germany only)
Dreadnoughts
Imperialism
Militarism (France(?) and Germany)
Motorized Transportation

 

[jak08]

So what exactly do you want people to do?

 

[jbfballrb]

mostly brainstorm

 

[jak08]

are you going to use custom skins for the units or are you going to wait till custom models can be made for the units?

 

[jbfballrb]

huh? i know nothing of graphics. i was going to wait at least until some people had started making units...

 

[Huang]

Is this scenario going to be based on a world map or a European map? I would recommend a world map because imperialism (Africa, China, Cuba, etc.) played a huge role during this period of European history.

 

[jbfballrb]

i was planning on Europe, as Europe was more important. thats why i attempted to make wonders for much of the world. i guess that a world map might work better, at least unless i can get a wonder victory...

 

[jak08]

Well skins are easy to make look at my How To here http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137265

 

[Jon Shafer]

i was planning on Europe, as Europe was more important. thats why i attempted to make wonders for much of the world. i guess that a world map might work better, at least unless i can get a wonder victory...

Plus it would be hard to make a playable map that fits both Europe and the rest of the world while keeping the size of the European nations big enough to be interesting.

 

[ArbitraryGuy]

i was planning on Europe, as Europe was more important. thats why i attempted to make wonders for much of the world. i guess that a world map might work better, at least unless i can get a wonder victory...

Side note: No wars or anything particularly interesting happened on the continent during this period until WWI. A focus on world-wide imperialism would be much more interesting.

 

[Crayton]

As for European Civilizations, you'll need a low quantity as the AI code is more indepth and consumes much time in calculating actions (long time between turns).

Major European Powers:
1. Britain
2. France
3. Germany
4. Italy
5. Austro-Hungarian Empire
6. Ottoman Empire
7. Russian Empire

Lesser European Civiliations
1. Iberia (Spain+Portugal)
2. Scandinavia (...)
3. Central Europe (Benelux+Switzerland)
4. Greece
5. Possible merge Balkan states with either A-H or Turks (based on balance)
6. Morocco (This nation is near enough to Europe)

As to weather a World or European map:

Imperialism is much more interesting yet would be risky. A good scenario would be very difficult to balance yet very enjoyable to play.

An 1871 Europe map could be instrumental for a World War build up. The 1815 Treaty of Vienna set Europe up for almost TOO much parity.

I'm sure you would be able to simulate Imperial Land Grabs with Wonder Races. Also, more civilizations would consume the time between turns as stated above.

Religions: You may be able to replace these with Ideologies. The spread of Nationalism was pivitol during 19th Century Europe and 20th Century ...Globe. On the flip side, religions are coded to improve diplomacy, if anything Nationalism strengthened rivalries.

Each nation could then have a religion and be naturally inclined towards Theocracy(Nationalism). The Austrian, Russian, and Ottoman Empires would probably have to do some research before receiving their religion. One technology for these 3 Empires may produce "Slavic Nationalim" which would, in turn, cause disunion within those Empires...

 

[jbfballrb]

Morocco was controlled by Spain and France. i definitely dont want Serbia to be merged, as they were a major reason for WWI. the USA would be nice to have in their, maybe just as a factor in the European balance of power. maybe not make them as imperialistic as Europe, or simulate what might happen if they had been? maybe triggers like those crises in the 1900-1910 decade, you can decide how to handle it?

 

[Loppan Torkel]

That's during the time we "owned" Norway - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden-Norway - just before the time oil became important .

 

[Dom Pedro II]

What's the time frame? Obviously it starts in 1871, but when does it run until? Might help determine what civs should be in and how smaller civs will be broken up.

Also, what are the victory conditions?

Also, religion is somewhat unnecessary.. but you may want to consider switching religion to something like political ideology... Marxism, Socialism, Monarchism, etc.

 

[Crayton]

In 1871, Morrocco was still independent even though they were enduring pressure from Spain, France, and the Turks. Algeria did belong to France.

Touche on Serbia. It was important. Perhaps a model could be worked out to actually allow cities to succede from the A-H, Ottoman, and Russian Empire and thus be able to simulate the Balkan wars. Another way to give Serbia sufficient power would be to grant it Montenegro and Transylvania (possibly Greece) as "Independent Balkans".

As to smaller civs, the main reason not include many is because their interactions with other civs consumes time. The Barbarian(Minor) civ has minimal such interactions. If we could remove the "Always War" option for Barbarians and be able to create multiple "Minor" civs then the game could run fairly slick with many civilizations!

Marxism is the bastard child of Nationalism but I think you could definately put both into the game (Judaism=>Christianity...). Monarchism actually does sound like a good choice!

Concerning 1871, most of Western Europe had Oversees Empires and most of Eastern Europe had land Empires. 1871 marks the year when Germany and Italy both became part of Western Europe and began carving out Oversees Empires. When Nationalism finally hit Eastern Europe the Empires began to crumble and civil wars erupted (e.g. Balkan Wars, WWI, Russian Revolution)....

I don't know why I included that last paragraph? A plot for your scenario (especially if you decide to create a Europe only map)? Imperialism on top of this would make an awesome scenario! I wonder how much you can pack in

 

[ArbitraryGuy]

Marxism is the bastard child of Nationalism but I think you could definately put both into the game (Judaism=>Christianity...). Monarchism actually does sound like a good choice!

How is Marxism the bastard child of nationalism?

Anyway, the dominant political ideology of the time (1870+) was liberalism (in the 19th centrury sense). Socialism was just starting to really gain some steam (maybe socialism could cause civil unrest?).

In my opinion, "monarchism" would be a poor choice. Rather, something like "reactionary" ideology could be used, athough by this time the landed aristocracy had been replaced by the capitalists, so their influence on policymaking was negligible. I dare say that the only two important ideologies by then were liberalism (not in the sense we use today in USA) and socialism.

Something so simultate spreading nationalism is very important, too. Perhaps "religions" could just simulate the spread of socialism and national separatism and their accomanying unrest. On the other hand, nationalism is what created Germany and Italy, so it wouldn't make sense to have unrest due to it there.

Just some things to mull over. Your idea sounds interesting.

 

[jbfballrb]

1871-1914. i was hoping we could get some triggers for the Balkans to revolt, like they really did. and i thought that minor nations couldnt interact diplomactically, but it would be useful to buy off some of those small ones...

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Whether Marxism is the bastard child of nationalism or not... and whether liberalism and socialism were the only two really influential ideologies is irrelevant... similar ideology is not grounds for exclusion and being less popular isn't either. I mean, remember that multiple "religions" can be in the same city. Even if no country embraced Marxism completely, there were certainly Marxist elements in a lot of the cities..

And monarchism seems reasonable considering the fact that there were still many more monarchies on the continent of Europe than republics in 1871 and some of them were autocratic. Let's not forget that even France in 1870 was a monarchy even if their emperor had no "legitimate" claim to the throne. Besides, "reactionary" in Europe in 1871 was pro-monarchy. Yes, the landed aristocracy had a negligable impact on policy at that point (at least in the capacity as landed aristocracy) but there were still elements in society that backed autocratic monarchs.

 

[jbfballrb]

i think i would rather do a world map. it could be more interesting. for example, for a land grab, the chinese now would be able to resist, and so maybe dont get colonized. or the Japanese do stuff.
in which case, civs for much of the map may be needed. a few questions:

should central/north africa have civs there?
what about Arabia?
Indochina?
what it basically boils down to is:
should Europe/America/Japan have to conquer or just settle?

i think Ethiopia and Zululand should have civs, at the least.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

i think i would rather do a world map. it could be more interesting. for example, for a land grab, the chinese now would be able to resist, and so maybe dont get colonized. or the Japanese do stuff.
in which case, civs for much of the map may be needed. a few questions:

should central/north africa have civs there?
what about Arabia?
Indochina?
what it basically boils down to is:
should Europe/America/Japan have to conquer or just settle?

i think Ethiopia and Zululand should have civs, at the least.

I think Barbarians could work well for Zululand.

I think Arabia should also be Barbarians.

Indochina is, at this point, under French and British rule, so maybe putting barbs there to show some resistance? Siam should be a barbarian state as well.

It may seem harsh to make these peoples barbarians, but considering that they would be pointless as playable civilizations on a world map, there's really no need to make them players.

That said, as most lands are now occupied to some degree or another, there shouldn't be any unresisted settling. Any lands the imperialists want are going to have be taken by force or taken with diplomatic and economic means.

While a world map would be good, I think you have to be careful not to lose the scope of your scenario. Moving it onto a global scale completely changes the dynamic of the scenario and makes it much more about the politics of imperialism than about the local political turmoil and conflict of Europe.