European Middle Ages Mod Resurrection

[Broken Hawk]

Could another Civ be added to counter the Lithuanians should they be too powerful. The only one I can think of would be the Finns... but were they too primitive to really be nothing but barbarians within the sheme of this mod? I suppose we could add a Crusader state like the Teutonic Order, as well, which actually fought against the Lithuanians, but they may have been too far west to have any real effect in keeping the Lithuanians tame.

I've not yet playtested sufficiently to see some of the items you've mentioned as far as play balance, Drtad. I'm not certain how these can be addressed... could helpful resources be added near Byzantium while some be taken away near Lithuania?

Historically the Teutonic Order and Lithuanians were constantly at war, especially over the region known as Samogitia. Neither held on to the territory before the other would retake it.

The Finnic Tribes were very weak because they were caught in the middle of a struggle between Sweden and the Novgorod Rus who were fighting over the fur trade in the region.

At the height of Lithuania's power, it controlled lands from the Baltic to Black Sea.

Now with respect to balanced gameplay in EMA, I think Drtad is right and potential access to resources should be tweaked to give the Byzantines a fair chance.

 

[Drtad]

Yeah, I suppose tundra and fewer forestsand resources could stunt Lithuania, and the addition of maybe plains and resources could boost the Byzantines. In my games Lithuania and Poland were battling for the top and the Byzantines were battling for the basement. Poland cactually had the upper hand near the beginning, but then Vytautas took off.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

Small bug... the cog animation is showing up as a caravel. I'm certain that you have a seperate animation for the cog unit, so it's obviously not coming up in the game.

 

[Drtad]

One other thing I noticed is that some geographical features on the map are missing, for example Lake Van, Lake Sevan, and Lake Urmia. Those are the only things that can come to my head at the moment.

By the way, I am making a Europe 1000AD scenario using the large Medieval Europe map. It will last from 1000-1064, the arrival of the Seljuks.

 

[hamtastic]

I just played about half a game (I'm guessing) on the small map. I've got a few comments, sorry if they're repeats.

1. It was fun - the techs were interesting and different. I also liked the units, although I have a bit of a complaint about them as well.

2. I had a pink head problem for some leader. I forget who it was. (Pink head in the overview diplomacy screens)

3. There may be too many units. I know this seems like a lame complaint, but there really were a lot to choose from extremely quickly. This may be because I emphasized military techs over other techs, but they really seemed to fly by. And I do usually play on normal speed, so it's not just a speed thing. Consider making techs a bit more expensive? Or spacing out units over the techs more?

4. Doing the things that you probably know need to be done would be a real winner - the leaderheads and all that. Have you considered just using some from CivGold or something? I know they even have a Theodora over there...

 

[Craig_Sutter]

I'm making a 1000 AD too, . Mine will last 500 years, so will be different from yours. I'm making an original map. Will be quite a while until I finish, though.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

I have the pink head too. Is it Phillip Augustus?

 

[Craig_Sutter]

Has anybody played enough to get a feel for unit balance. I'm most concerned about the Horse Archer and Horse Archer UU's as when the Barbs had them, they seemed overly effective.

Is a Horse Archer rush strategy possible? I'm not a very good player, so I can't put these sort of things adequately through their paces.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

Updated my scenario to version .45 of this Mod. See my sig for details.

 

[Drtad]

The leader with the pink button is Miezco I of Poland I think. Also, I agree with Hamtastic that as many unique leaderheads should be used as possible. Since I realized that you cant unzip Khazaria mod since it is an ace file Head Serf, tommorow I will post it in zip form so you can milk it for the LH and UU.

 

[Head Serf]

Thanks Drtad, and I guess I'll work on getting leaderheads for the mod.

I don't think that the horse archers are unbalanced anymore, they are fairly costly and come enough time after spearman which have no resource requirements.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

Here's a real nice Galleass by C. Roland...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=4927465#post4927465

 

[Drtad]

Khazaria modHere is the Khazaria in zip form so you can use it Head Serf.

 

[hamtastic]

@craig_sutter:

I tried to go for a horse archer rush - I don't think it works, since spears are avilable quite early. Macemen might be overpowered, though.

 

[Head Serf]

Macemen get killed easily by composite archers and knights, but are quite powerful if gotten early.

 

[Head Serf]

I just got a fantastic idea from this mod component: Civ-Specific Great People. We should include region specific Great People! Having the Catholic Saints spawn as Muslim religious leaders is ridiculous. It might be too much to find great people lists for all 33 civilizations, so I thought we should break it down into these regions:

Central Catholic Nations
France
Italy
Papal States
Venice
Crusaders

Iberian Catholic Nations
Spain
Portugal

North Catholic Nations
Germany
Poland

British Isles and Nearby Catholic Nations
England
Wales
Scotland
Normandy
Ireland

Byzantine Orthodox Nations
Byzantium

Russian Orthodox Nations
Russia

Slavic Nations
Hungary
Slavs
Bulgars

Pagan Northern Nations
Goths
Vikings
Lithuania
Saxony

Roman Nations
Roman Empire

Eastern Christian Nations
Armenia

Asian Steppe Nations
Mongols
Khazars
Tatars

Persian Nations
Persia

Turkish Nations
Turks

Arabic Muslim Nations
Arabia
Egypt
Moors

That makes only 14 groups to do, with 5 great people each, so 70 lists total. If you guys think this is a good idea, I'll start looking for great people.

EDIT: I moved Saxony to north pagan nations

 

[Craig_Sutter]

The regional breakdown is a great idea, as most saints (at least the missionaries) traveled to more than one country.

A list of saints should be quite easy... for the British Isles, for instance...

St. Cuthbert, St. Columba, St. Patrick, St. Augustine (of Canterbury), St. Edmund (a king of East Anglia killed by the vikings).

There are easily accessible lists on the internet, although the problem may be that there will be too many saints, rather than too few. We should try to get the most notable. The first 4 of the above I listed are rather important... not so much for St. Edmund.

 

[Head Serf]

Some great engineers: Sinan for the Turks, Baccio Pontelli, Giovannino de Dolci, Leonardo Da Vinci and Maurice de Sulley for Central Catholic, Nerses III for Armenia, Odo of Metz for North Catholic Nations, Roger of Sicily for British (He was Norman), Abd al-Malik, al-Walid and al-Mansur for Arabian Nations.

It may be necassary for some of the great people, to combine groups. For instance, finding Great Scientists for East Asian Nations would be very difficult.

 

[Drtad]

I love the idea. I think it would be easiest to find scientists for the Arabs, as they were pretty advanced. Byzantines I can't recall but the engineers who built the Hagia Sofia should be added. Da Vinci was in the Rennaisance wasn't he Head Serf?

EDIT: Another good Engineer/Architect would be Trdat (pronounced Drtad, I don't know why it is spelled Trdat in English). After the collapse of Zvartnots, Trdat designed the church of Gagikashen for King Gagik and mainly Queen Katerina (Catherine). Gagikashen was a copy of Zvartnots and only Trdat had the ability to reconstruct it at the time. He also designed the even more magnificent Cathedral of Ani, the most important building of Ani. Also, a Great Artist would be Toros Roslin, who lived in Armenian Cilicia.

 

[Drtad]

Another thing, would Great Generals be good for the Great Lord category? If so, then it should be easy to fill up that category.