European Middle Ages Mod Resurrection
- Thread starter Head Serf
- Start date
Ambreville
Deity
Normans as a separate CIV are OK for the basic mod of course. The above statement is a bit misleading though. Early norman nobility was indeed purely Viking. Otherwise, most of the population in Normandy was essentially French (Gallo-Roman & Frankish), since this was land given by the King of France to these Vikings in exchange for peace (the end of raids up the Seine River) and some measure of protection against other viking raids. Over the centuries, the population was mixed French and Norse. The Duchy of Normandy never really "divorced" from being a vassal of France. Things got tricky though when the Angevins herited Normandy and became England's royal Plantagenet dynasty. Despite the 100 Years Wars Normandy remained a French Duchy. Sicily-Naples originally was not linked to the crown of France. It became so through later marriages.
Head Serf
Emperor
To Craig
As you said earlier, I will fix the naval unit errors you included, including making medieval galleys not able to travel on the ocean, changing Dromon to Lateen Galley, and working on Carracks, Galleons, and Caravels. I will also look into the naval experience problem when I start reworking the building system.
I will also fix the halberdier’s siege ability, the camels in non-desert squares, the cost of naval and land units, work on making the exploration victory logical and playable, the compass tech tree problem, and get the resource system in a better condition.
To Broken Hawk
I don’t think that the Teutonic Knights need to be separated from the crusaders as a civilization. The main purpose of these many civilizations is for Unique Units, and the Teutonic Knights and other orders of the time really were similar enough.
To Ambreville
Almost all of your comments are disregarding the fact that I will not be changing the civilizations of the main scenario and therefore make no sense.
To Shumy7
The download link is on the first page, immediately under the picture of the main scenario map.
As you said earlier, I will fix the naval unit errors you included, including making medieval galleys not able to travel on the ocean, changing Dromon to Lateen Galley, and working on Carracks, Galleons, and Caravels. I will also look into the naval experience problem when I start reworking the building system.
I will also fix the halberdier’s siege ability, the camels in non-desert squares, the cost of naval and land units, work on making the exploration victory logical and playable, the compass tech tree problem, and get the resource system in a better condition.
To Broken Hawk
I don’t think that the Teutonic Knights need to be separated from the crusaders as a civilization. The main purpose of these many civilizations is for Unique Units, and the Teutonic Knights and other orders of the time really were similar enough.
To Ambreville
Almost all of your comments are disregarding the fact that I will not be changing the civilizations of the main scenario and therefore make no sense.
To Shumy7
The download link is on the first page, immediately under the picture of the main scenario map.
Craig_Sutter
Deity
Download link is in first page, first post.
Broken Hawk
Emperor
Craig_Sutter
Deity
Maybe someone will make a scenario for those...
Ambreville
Deity
Your statement does not seem to make much sense either. I was under the understanding we were talking about the CIVs in the mod. So now, which scenario are you referring to and what are the CIVs in that scenario?
Craig_Sutter
Deity
The main scenario is the map that comes with the mod. There are 16-18 civs on that map. These are also the civilizations that will be accessable in a random game using the mod. The XML file governing civilizations allows up to 18 civs to comprise the main body of a mod, and be accessable via random map generation. These mod civs will play out on any mod generated map. The map that comes with the mod incorporates these (at the moment 16) civs within it.
Additionally, the XML file also allows any number of civs to be appended to it. While these will not occur in generated random maps, they can be added to scenarios and will incorporate the mod features.
To be clear, then, there are 16 civs, at the moment, that will occur on randomly generated maps... these are listed on the first page, I believe (checked, they aren't). A map that invokes these civs is included with the mod. Additionally, there will be other civs included that will use mod features, but will not be on randomly generated maps, and are not included on the scenario map included with the mod.
In light of your misunderstanding of the above (correct me if I'm wrong), then your criticism of some of the civs included in the mod does not make sense. This is not to imply that some of your comments are not without merit, just that they are not being done in the proper context, so don't make sense as valid criticisms. They do make perfect sense if you think every civ Head Serf listed in his post a page back will be in the main scenario, but that is not the case.
Have you played the map that comes with the mod? Or a random map? That makes it readily apparent which civs have made the cut to the main map. And hints as to the basis upon which they've been selected. If you have comments about those civs, and wish some to be added, or to be changed or deleted, they are welcome. Other people have done likewise (the addition of Lithuania and Armenia are cases in point). You seem to have some knowledge of history, and your input will be valued, but you have to give it with full knowledge of the facts at hand, and the mechanics of the mod. This mod hasn't been so far developed that there is a clear and ready FAQ about it, so I can see some of the misunderstanding of how it works. I hope the information I've given is helpful.
Additionally, the XML file also allows any number of civs to be appended to it. While these will not occur in generated random maps, they can be added to scenarios and will incorporate the mod features.
To be clear, then, there are 16 civs, at the moment, that will occur on randomly generated maps... these are listed on the first page, I believe (checked, they aren't). A map that invokes these civs is included with the mod. Additionally, there will be other civs included that will use mod features, but will not be on randomly generated maps, and are not included on the scenario map included with the mod.
In light of your misunderstanding of the above (correct me if I'm wrong), then your criticism of some of the civs included in the mod does not make sense. This is not to imply that some of your comments are not without merit, just that they are not being done in the proper context, so don't make sense as valid criticisms. They do make perfect sense if you think every civ Head Serf listed in his post a page back will be in the main scenario, but that is not the case.
Have you played the map that comes with the mod? Or a random map? That makes it readily apparent which civs have made the cut to the main map. And hints as to the basis upon which they've been selected. If you have comments about those civs, and wish some to be added, or to be changed or deleted, they are welcome. Other people have done likewise (the addition of Lithuania and Armenia are cases in point). You seem to have some knowledge of history, and your input will be valued, but you have to give it with full knowledge of the facts at hand, and the mechanics of the mod. This mod hasn't been so far developed that there is a clear and ready FAQ about it, so I can see some of the misunderstanding of how it works. I hope the information I've given is helpful.
Craig_Sutter
Deity
Went and looked, the civs are not listed on the front page as far as I can see, after a quick look. Getting mixed up with the old thread, and old age, I suppose.
Head Serf, at some point could we get a listing of the civs included put on the introductory page?
Head Serf, at some point could we get a listing of the civs included put on the introductory page?
Ambreville
Deity
Craig Sutter / Head Serf
Yup, definitely one star...
You did not seem to pay much attention to what I wrote and why. It wasn't criticism about the CIVs in play, more like questions. At this point, this is turning into a useless discussion, something which I am not interested in pursuing. Have a nice day.
Yup, definitely one star...
You did not seem to pay much attention to what I wrote and why. It wasn't criticism about the CIVs in play, more like questions. At this point, this is turning into a useless discussion, something which I am not interested in pursuing. Have a nice day.
Craig_Sutter
Deity
I'm really not certain he really even played it...
Head Serf
Emperor
Gott Sei Dank, he's finally gone.
Head Serf
Emperor
Here are some of my thoughts on leaders for the civilizations. For now, I think I'll just include one leader, maybe two, for each civilization.
1. England
2. Saxony
3. Welsh
4. Normans
-William the Conquerer
5. Scottish
6. Ireland
7. France (Franks)
-Charlemagne
8. Germany (German Kingdoms)
-Frederick Barbossa
-Otto I
9. Goths
-Theodoric
10. Crusaders (Teutonic Knights, Templars, Hospitallers)
11. Spain
-El Cid
12. Portugal
13. Italian States (General Italian Kingdoms)
14. Venice
15. Papal States
-Pope Urban II
16. Vikings (Scandinavian Kingdoms)
17. Lithuania
18. Poland
-Jan Sobeiski III
19. Russia (Kievan Rus)
20. Hungary
21. Byzantines (East Roman Empire)
-Basil II
-Justinian I
22. Roman Empire
23. Slavs
24. Armenia
25. Arabia
-Abu Bakr
-Saladin
26. Egypt
27. Turks
-Alp Arslan
-Mehmed
28. Moors (Berbers)
29. Persia
-Chroeses II
30. Tatars
31. Mongols
-Genghis Khan
32. Bulgars
33. Khazars
Please add to the list. By the way, I may have the number wrong after some of the names, so please correct me if it is incorrect.
1. England
2. Saxony
3. Welsh
4. Normans
-William the Conquerer
5. Scottish
6. Ireland
7. France (Franks)
-Charlemagne
8. Germany (German Kingdoms)
-Frederick Barbossa
-Otto I
9. Goths
-Theodoric
10. Crusaders (Teutonic Knights, Templars, Hospitallers)
11. Spain
-El Cid
12. Portugal
13. Italian States (General Italian Kingdoms)
14. Venice
15. Papal States
-Pope Urban II
16. Vikings (Scandinavian Kingdoms)
17. Lithuania
18. Poland
-Jan Sobeiski III
19. Russia (Kievan Rus)
20. Hungary
21. Byzantines (East Roman Empire)
-Basil II
-Justinian I
22. Roman Empire
23. Slavs
24. Armenia
25. Arabia
-Abu Bakr
-Saladin
26. Egypt
27. Turks
-Alp Arslan
-Mehmed
28. Moors (Berbers)
29. Persia
-Chroeses II
30. Tatars
31. Mongols
-Genghis Khan
32. Bulgars
33. Khazars
Please add to the list. By the way, I may have the number wrong after some of the names, so please correct me if it is incorrect.
Craig_Sutter
Deity
Here are some suggestions... Mine are bolded. I cheated a bit, as most of them are from my scenario...
1. England
-Henry V
2. Saxons
-Alfred the Great
-Harold Godwinson
-Wittekind
3. Welsh
-Elisedd ap Gwylog
4. Normans
-William the Conquerer
5. Scottish
-Kenneth Mac Alpine
6. Ireland
-Brian Boru
-Turlough Mor O'Connor
7. France (Franks)
-Charlemagne
-Clovis
-Pepin
8. Germany (German Kingdoms)
-Frederick Barbossa
-Otto I
9. Goths
-Theodoric
10. Crusaders (Teutonic Knights, Templars, Hospitallers)
11. Spain
-El Cid
12. Portugal
-Henry the Navigator
13. Italian States (General Italian Kingdoms)
14. Venice
15. Papal States
-Pope Urban II
16. Vikings (Scandinavian Kingdoms)
-Canute
-Olaf
Birger Magnusson
Haakon Sigurdsson
17. Lithuania
18. Poland
-Jan Sobeiski III
19. Russia (Kievan Rus)
20. Hungary
21. Byzantines (East Roman Empire)
-Basil II
-Justinian I
22. Roman Empire
-Syagrius
23. Slavs
24. Armenia
25. Arabia
-Abu Bakr
-Saladin
26. Egypt
27. Turks
-Alp Arslan
-Mehmed
28. Moors (Berbers)
29. Persia
-Chroeses II
30. Tatars
31. Mongols
-Genghis Khan
32. Bulgars
33. Khazars
1. England
-Henry V
2. Saxons
-Alfred the Great
-Harold Godwinson
-Wittekind
3. Welsh
-Elisedd ap Gwylog
4. Normans
-William the Conquerer
5. Scottish
-Kenneth Mac Alpine
6. Ireland
-Brian Boru
-Turlough Mor O'Connor
7. France (Franks)
-Charlemagne
-Clovis
-Pepin
8. Germany (German Kingdoms)
-Frederick Barbossa
-Otto I
9. Goths
-Theodoric
10. Crusaders (Teutonic Knights, Templars, Hospitallers)
11. Spain
-El Cid
12. Portugal
-Henry the Navigator
13. Italian States (General Italian Kingdoms)
14. Venice
15. Papal States
-Pope Urban II
16. Vikings (Scandinavian Kingdoms)
-Canute
-Olaf
Birger Magnusson
Haakon Sigurdsson
17. Lithuania
18. Poland
-Jan Sobeiski III
19. Russia (Kievan Rus)
20. Hungary
21. Byzantines (East Roman Empire)
-Basil II
-Justinian I
22. Roman Empire
-Syagrius
23. Slavs
24. Armenia
25. Arabia
-Abu Bakr
-Saladin
26. Egypt
27. Turks
-Alp Arslan
-Mehmed
28. Moors (Berbers)
29. Persia
-Chroeses II
30. Tatars
31. Mongols
-Genghis Khan
32. Bulgars
33. Khazars
Broken Hawk
Emperor
Bulgars - Khan Kubrat
Khazars - Kozar
(from Wikipedia)
Crusaders - Richard I the Lionheart
Lithuania - Mindaugas
Armenia - Tiridates III
Khazars - Kozar
(from Wikipedia)
Crusaders - Richard I the Lionheart
Lithuania - Mindaugas
Armenia - Tiridates III
Drtad
It Stinks!!!
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2006
- Messages
- 838
Alright Tiridates (Drtad
) III won't work because he was around before the middle ages. A better Armenian leader would be either the current one, Ashot I, Ashot II Yerkat, or Gagik I. How about a Byzantine leader from Crusade times? Emperor Alexios I Komnenos, famous for the Battles of Levounion and Nicaea, and the starter of the Komnenoi Restoration. And for Crusaders, how about Baldwin I of Bologne, or Guy of Lusignan, and Richard can be an English leader?
) III won't work because he was around before the middle ages. A better Armenian leader would be either the current one, Ashot I, Ashot II Yerkat, or Gagik I. How about a Byzantine leader from Crusade times? Emperor Alexios I Komnenos, famous for the Battles of Levounion and Nicaea, and the starter of the Komnenoi Restoration. And for Crusaders, how about Baldwin I of Bologne, or Guy of Lusignan, and Richard can be an English leader?
Craig_Sutter
Deity
I was thinking about Richard for the English leader, as well, but truth is that he really sucked as the English king, and was hardly ever there.
Drtad
It Stinks!!!
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2006
- Messages
- 838
Then maybe Richard could have no traits of an administrator, but the traits of a crusader. Pious and Conqueror perhaps?
EDIT: and by the way, the Khazar leader should be Khagan Bek Ziebel, who led the Khazars into defeating the Persians during the Byzantine-Persian Wars. This should be the choice mainly because he already has a 3D animated head in Esnaz's Khazaria mod.
EDIT: and by the way, the Khazar leader should be Khagan Bek Ziebel, who led the Khazars into defeating the Persians during the Byzantine-Persian Wars. This should be the choice mainly because he already has a 3D animated head in Esnaz's Khazaria mod.
Craig_Sutter
Deity
Richard's a good warlike leader, no doubt.
Forgot, another possible Norman leader would be Rollo the Viking. He was the first Norman Duke of Normandy... basically bought off with the title to stop raiding.
Forgot, another possible Norman leader would be Rollo the Viking. He was the first Norman Duke of Normandy... basically bought off with the title to stop raiding.
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