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ggmoyang

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Link to video.

They don't say too much about MP, but at least they say about simultaneous/sequential turns.

Basically game goes with simultaneous turn, but warring players use sequential turns. Player with lower score goes first. To balance things, they said some tweaks were done in score calculation.
 
No more simultaneous combat? I might actually try multiplayer.
 
I have a question related to this... Is there an option for simultaneous war? Because otherwise team games will be weird (2v2, 3v3, etc.). Also FFA's will take a long while. Though games where you save and reload it might work but its tough to get 4-8 people back together again after you stop a game for a day.
 
Haha that's funny, when they were doing a stream with Rev4games the other day, I mentioned in chat that they hadn't said much about MP, and David said "that's weird, we just did a thing on MP with Gamespot the other day". Apparently he didn't realize it hadn't been posted yet...

Really interesting to hear their respective attitudes on it. David sounds pretty dismissive of us multiplayer munchkins. Gotta disagree w him -- good MP is certainly less predictable, but that doesn't mean it's less rational. You just have to be more flexible and adaptive, which I find ultimately more interesting and challenging than playing a game where you know what you're going to do 100 turns from now. There is still certainly an element of predicting what your opponent is going to do -- like he said, he knew Miller's playstyle well enough to predict his moves -- but better players will simply be less predictable (just as better AI is less predictable). And ultimately, people who make the best, most rational decisions still usually win at Civ. (Well, that or whoever drops last...)

As to the actual MP experience in BE:

1. The combat sounds straight-up awesome. So many new ways to build and use an army. Combat in MP sounds like it will blow anything in SP out of the water -- it's really the best part of MP, because AI, no matter how good it is, will never match humans in tactics. It'll be awesome to play against players that make full use of the range of units, affinity upgrades, perks, and tactical styles.

2. I like the change to make hybrid the central turn mechanic. You don't really need sequential during peaceful turns (except for stuff like stealing resource pods... but who really cares about that). MP warfare OTOH has to be played sequential to have any real element of strategy -- that's where you can make actual tactical decisions, and its where humans really shine vs. playing AI.

3. That said... it's all going to depend on whether they've improved the playability of hybrid. They absolutely need to give off-turn players something to do -- you need to be able to see your opponents actually moving and fighting in your field of view, and/or have access to your various panels to plan out your next turn. You can't just be sitting there reading a book -- everyone will hate that and people just won't play MP.

4. Not sure if they will make full simultaneous an option... but I kind of hope they don't, at least at first, to try and encourage people to give the new hybrid a try. Again, assuming they've actually made hybrid more playable, I think it will ultimately be more fun.

5. Glad to hear they've changed the points system. Nothing made less sense in Civ than that the highest-score player was always the one who built the most early-game wonders. Hopefully scores will more accurately reflect who's actually ahead now -- that'll be good for both MP and SP.

6. Kind of interesting they made points affect turn order. I'm a little concerned that will make it more difficult for lower score players to attack higher score players -- and if you're focusing on military you're bound to have the lower score. Hopefully if you make a DoW you will get the first turn of combat decisions, to have that surprise attack/preemptive DoW defense element. And hopefully, DoWs won't mean one turn of simultaneous combat, like they do in Civ5 hybrid... that's just weird.

Between the gameplay, balancing and online stability changes, I think they've got the makings of a really interesting strategic and tactical MP game here that could be more fascinating and fun than any Civ to date. Now just gotta hope the execution lives up to the promise...
 
Simultaneous combat definitely has to stay an option, otherwise games just take too long. But we've seen simultaneous in the multiplayer let's play on Yogscast Duncan's channel though, and I don't see them removing it, so I'm not too worried: http://youtu.be/J-n-cna9oo4?t=11m40s

I also don't think the scoring could ever be a very accurate representation of the situation, but I'm glad they've looked into it, as it could definitely be improved. Could lead to some weird things in the hybrid combat games, like purposefully trying to keep your score lower than your rival's especially before wars.

One thing they could maybe use the mechanic for is same turn wonders. For those who don't know, in Civ 5 MP the players get same turn wonders depending on the order they joined the lobby. Anything would be better than that certainly (could also just be random or be decided based on production overflow).
 
Simultaneous combat definitely has to stay an option, otherwise games just take too long.

Hybrid would be fine if it just prevented you moving your units, rather than locking you out of EVERYTHING like it does in Civ 5. That way you could plan your tech, change what cities are building, pick virtues, all that jazz, while your opponent was moving his units, then he could do the same while you were moving yours.

Getting rid of simultaneous warfare is a worthwhile goal.
 
Hybrid would be fine if it just prevented you moving your units, rather than locking you out of EVERYTHING like it does in Civ 5. That way you could plan your tech, change what cities are building, pick virtues, all that jazz, while your opponent was moving his units, then he could do the same while you were moving yours.

Getting rid of simultaneous warfare is a worthwhile goal.

Exactly. I'm thinking that not locking people out during sequential warfare would probably even speed up the simultaneous players turns, because people would know what they're going to do when their turn does start. Less pondering = significantly faster game. And if you could queue up buildings and switch citizens and stuff? Again much faster overall.

I'm glad the lower-score player goes first. Though it would still be strange to DoW someone and then wait while their units attack yours. I'm guessing this means there will still be that first turn of simultaneous warfare...not sure how I feel about that.
 
The way I do it in my in-person LAN MP games is that the player that declares war gets to move all their units first. Then the defender moves theirs, then the attacker and so on.

If you're going to give the first turn advantage to anyone, it should be the player that declared the war.
 
This preview made me think, do these guys even play single player anymore? The multiplayer game is much more fun, provided you have 7 other people to play all day long with. I certainly wouldn't want to waste time programming AI when I could be perfecting the LAN game instead. I wonder how much time they are forced to spend on the single player side?
 
This preview made me think, do these guys even play single player anymore? The multiplayer game is much more fun, provided you have 7 other people to play all day long with. I certainly wouldn't want to waste time programming AI when I could be perfecting the LAN game instead. I wonder how much time they are forced to spend on the single player side?

This is a really weird post.
 
Very glad to hear simultaneous turns won't be a default for BE like it was for initial V. Turning a turn-based game into a who-is-fastest clickfest with battles being decided by who was first to click the mouse rather than strategy was a terrible thing for MP that shall not be missed.

Simultaneous turns can work if playing by gentlemen's rules with players you know (who won't abuse it) but for random MP the hybrid model is definitely the right choice.
 
This preview made me think, do these guys even play single player anymore? The multiplayer game is much more fun, provided you have 7 other people to play all day long with. I certainly wouldn't want to waste time programming AI when I could be perfecting the LAN game instead. I wonder how much time they are forced to spend on the single player side?


How many people play MP vs SP?


Devote the % of time to development using whatever that percentage is.
 
How many people play MP vs SP?


Devote the % of time to development using whatever that percentage is.

Yes I agree, that is how it should be. But watching the recent Maddjin LP, this clearly can't be the truth.
 
Yes I agree, that is how it should be. But watching the recent Maddjin LP, this clearly can't be the truth.

I wish I could remember where I read it and what the numbers were. Most people never play one second of multiplayer. I am an exception as I will play a game LAN against a friend of mine 4 times a year. So maybe 2300 hours SP to 100 MP.
 
How many people play MP vs SP?


Devote the % of time to development using whatever that percentage is.

The trouble with this philosophy is that it's circular. Make an awesome multiplayer game and more people will play it. Civ 5's multiplayer has always been really shoddily implemented, so I bet there are lots of people who tried it once or twice and then gave up on it.
 
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