Expansive Dreams

Research-wise, machinery would be nice for maces but so many other civs have it I don't think its worth self-researching. I'd rather trade for it or take it from Asoka as part of the peace settlement.

It's really going to have to be getting it from Asoka for peace (which I don't think the AI's will do cause that will give us Maces), since all the other AI's think we are either too advanced (Mao,JC), don't like us (Sury), or don't know Machinery (Wilhelm). So self-research it first, then go for Lib.

Wilhelm is so small right now, I would even propose trading Philosophy for Monarchy (on way to Feudalism->Guilds) once we are sufficiently far on the Lib track.

I agree with the others that the general plan is cripple Asoka, take peace for techs/money, wait, kill Asoka, recover economy, then win.

I think we should spread Buddhism among our cities after we capture the holy city for extra :gold: during the economic buildup (with an eye to make it the wall street city since taking the Christianity holy city is probably going to happen during the final push for victory*)

*Assuming, of course, it takes until Corporation to finish the game!
 
I agree with the others that the general plan is cripple Asoka, take peace for techs/money, wait, kill Asoka, recover economy, then win.

Yes I agree with that too.

It's really going to have to be getting it from Asoka for peace (which I don't think the AI's will do cause that will give us Maces), since all the other AI's think we are either too advanced (Mao,JC), don't like us (Sury), or don't know Machinery (Wilhelm). So self-research it first, then go for Lib.

IF I can't get it from peace with Asoka, then it'll be Paper>Edu then try to backtrack with trades or self-research Machinery. Taking Steel with Lib is great. Cannons/grenadiers will be a sure win.
 
Techwise I say switch to paper...it is on the path to Lib and Sankore would boost our research.
Ulundi can build that one.

Getting Steel with Lib will require quite a bit of delaying Lib.
I assume we will tech like this.
Paper>Edu>Lib(all but the final turn)>Gunpowder>Chemistry
Backfilling Machinery and Guilds before we start Gunpowder will give us a discount.

Once we finish off Asoka I say we focus on infra and commerce boosting.
We will never get a Steel Slingshot running 20% science slider.

Enough looking ahead...

As for your set Cripp...

Focus on rebuilding the economy.
Build just enough units to finish off Asoka and no more.

We are already in Bureau...I see no need to switch to Caste right now.

Be on the lookout for good trades for Monarchy and Machinery.
But I wouldn't trade CS or Philo until we have either lost the monopoly or we have multiple techs that we can score from trades.
For example, if we can trade for Feud, Machinery, and Music or Theo then pull the trigger.
And if you can...trade Philo first as it doesn't provide any useful benefits.

Not that it matters too much but I would remove any EPs from Asoka or Willem.
They just won't be around much longer.
2 to Sury and 1 to Mao and JC soudns good to me.

Knowing what these guys are teching will help us in our Lib run.

Thats about all I can think of right now.

Good luck Cripp!
 
Pre-Turn
Ok, taking a look-see at everything
P'y :whipped: ikhanda
kwa :whipped: forge

Do some MM in cities
slider to 30%(-9) (-7) after trade
Make a trade with mao
Civ4ScreenShot0002-2.jpg

Tech Paper
hit enter

Turn 211
kwa forge>
Seoul ikhanda>library
P'y ikhanda>library

Take out a few strangling units, 3axes/impi healup outside of Nobamba
Notice Sury has a settler group 1S of copper SE of Nobamba
Being in Rep hire 2:science: in Nobamba,Ulindi Paper due in 10t

Turn 212
Iron Fish ikhanda>lighthouse
Pillage Asoka's iron, Dehli has sword/archer defending
Battle of Bombay
Civ4ScreenShot0005-1.jpg

Bombay captured
Sury settles 1S of copper
Our Conf missionary get killed!
Nobamba switch to courthouse

Turn 213
Asoka gets a GG, lets hope he settles him
kwa switched to :gold:
Iron Fish switched to wb

Turn 214
Seoul :whipped: library

Turn 215
Seoul library>market
Bombard Dehli 60% to 11%

Turn 216
uMg HE>cat
Battle for Dehli
Civ4ScreenShot0001-1.jpg

Spoiler Delhi :
Civ4ScreenShot0006-1.jpg

Dehli captured
Dial up Asoka for treaty
Civ4ScreenShot0000-1.jpg

kwa sword
Make a trade with Sury
Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg

slider to 50%(-44)524:gold: Paper in 4
Asoka has no more metals and only 2 cities left
Adjust the EPs
Civ4ScreenShot0008-1.jpg


Turn 217
Ulindi forge>cat

Here's where I split the stack for 2 city atack. 4x4 sword/cat goes towards Varamani while the rest mix will go to Vija
Rest of the empire will work on infrastructe

Turn 218
uMg cat>courthouse
IF wb>lighthouse
slider to 60%(-58)436:gold: Paper next turn

Turn 219
Paper>Machinery
Civ4ScreenShot0009-1.jpg

Bula court>:research: max :food: to grow
kwa sword>courthouse ^^^
Ulindi market ^^^

Turn 220
Wonson library>courthouse
slider to 30%(-16)371:gold:
My bad on tech go back Education 22t

Turn 221
zzz

Turn 222
Make a trade with JC
Civ4ScreenShot0010-1.jpg

slider to 50%(-34)339:gold:
IF :whipped: lighthouse

Turn 223
IF lighthouse>moai

Turn 224
zzz

Stop here as that was 15t. Next turn take out Asoka, finish Education, work on infrastructe in the East.
That Eastern barb city is in a good place. Also, Sury is settling the South so put a blocker 1E of iron.
 
Top work on taking out Asokas most important cities.

I had a feeling if we didn't block off the south then it might get settled by the AI. Oh well let them waste there money and hammers improving it for us!

Will look at the save in a bit.

Roster
Grandad1982
Tynion - welcome onboard
Sirloin
sturick - up now
cripp7 - on deck
narri
 
Grandad the roster you posted is from a few sets ago. Narri should be up next.

I won't be able to look at the save until late tonight so I'll post some comments then. Overall looks like a nice set Cripp.
 
Doh!

I copy and pasted but forgot tochange the tags!

Second times a charm.

Roster
Grandad1982 - On deck
Tynion
Sirloin
sturick
cripp7
narri - Up now
 
Got it. Will post comments and a plan either later tonight or early tomorrow.
 
Well played Cripp!

To take two cities with only one lost catapult is a fantastic result.
The final two cities will be easy pickings for us!

Plus, our economy will get a nice bump with the arrival of markets and courthouses in the next few turns.

Narri, please take note...we aren't working the gold or horse tiles in Bulwalyo.
You will want to fix that.

What religion do we plan on running.
Best to decide now so that we can build the appropriate buildings for the Sankore benefit.
My vote would be to stay in Christianity to stay friends with Mao and JC.
But we need to spread Buddhism for the shrine income too.

After further thought I think that Seoul should build Sankore right after it finishes its market.
A GP farm that can build wonders is fantastic...just check out aCK-2's Bibracte if you don't believe me.

Congratulations Cripp on a set well done!
 
Full plan to come later, but just to show how good cripp's warring was, the following is my plan to kill Asoka by declaring at the start of my second or third turn (when everyone is in place).
Spoiler :

attachment.php

I love how Asoka has terrible roading skills. Red stack will be sitting on the only easy way back from the fort to the city, so the crossbow won't be able to defend the city!

Orange stack is self-explanatory. I will probably leave an axe in the city and reinforce with the impi in delhi.

I will take the Impi sitting in Seoul and steal two workers conveniently farming the corn in just the right amount of time (there is still an axeman in Seoul, so this is safe).

Blue stack is there just in case there's a lot more defense than I think is in Vijay.
 

Attachments

  • expansive1.jpg
    expansive1.jpg
    202.7 KB · Views: 205
Thanks guys! Religion, I say stay in Christ and spread Buddha everywhere. When UoS is built which religion do the building go for? The religion you're currently in? I agree on the courts/markets, any city that doesn't have much to do build :gold: to raise the slider

As far as the war path, once those last 2 cities are taken(razed Vara) regroup in Delhi and take WvO.
 
The war plan is in my last post (yes, it is that simple!). We should leave WvO alone because JC and Mao like him and because he can still be a trading partner.

Instead, my turnset will be to take out Asoka and do some building up to get our economy into win mode (maybe some troops as well if I can catch Machinery from trading). I think we should simply just go for Sury on the next turnset (everyone doesn't like him, and we can get enough friendlies to maybe get AP diplo victory).

I will raze Vera as noted previously and resettle one north of the horse to encompass both seafood resources.

Should I settle the c2* spot by the Ivory in the northeast as well?

I will probably get to take over the barb city on my turnset. Keep it?

With such a big empire (and potentially four additions during my turnset), I propose the riskier Hanging Gardens after I :whipped: the Market in Seoul. +1 pop in all those cities is worth it (and we have stone for double production speed). Hopefully I will have settled/captured all those spots before I finish it.

Research:
Edu->Lib to 1 turn left

Trading:
My biggest mission is to get Machinery somehow (so we can get some CR3 maces). I see two ways to get it:
1) Hope WvO researches it, and I can give Philo for it.
2) Get Mao to Friendly (I hope) by giving away either Monarchy or Lit (which one?). This will make Machinery available to trade because then he won't think we're too advanced at Friendly. Then I will try to give Philo for it.

Assuming I get that done, the backfill goals are Theo (for AP), Fued->Guilds, and Engineering if we're still going for Liberalism->Steel (Chemistry requires it). If we're not, then I would try Edu->Lib->Nationalism for Taj (which would make Iron Fish a monster city during the Golden Age after Maoi is done) or Edu->Lib to 1 turn->PP->Lib->Replaceable Parts and mass windmills on hills that already have 1 food on it.

Builds:
Mostly Infrastructure stuff (Courthouses,Ikhadas,Market). A few exceptions:

Delhi is going to :whipped: a Courthouse at a good point before the Monastary (I see it as a good Forbidden Palace candidate and will save us 5:gold: on maintainance right away).

I'm whipping the Market in Seoul before I even hit enter and overflow into the wonder of our choice (UoS or my Hanging Gardens proposal).

Bulwayo is going to stop contributing all of 2 hammers to research, and instead (after rejiggering to work the Gold and Horse tiles) :whipped: a Christian missionary to spread to Iron Fish (which really could use that 25% bonus for buldings!) and overflowing into a settler (for c2* or the replacement for Vara).

I'm whipping the finishing Courthouse in uMg to get huge overflow into a worker (to leverage Expansive and to help work the new lands we will soon have. Same thing in Nobamba by giving a turn off for the two hard-working scientists there.

I will let Seoul grow for a while until National Epic is done, then (if it is still my turn) revolt to Caste and let the GP madness begin. Speaking of madness, I will fire a Spy that is covertly working in Seoul and send him to the farms to gather more food! Maybe the revolt should wait for a Golden Age.

Where should the GS that will pop in 17 turns go? I say Academy in Seoul.

Iron Fish could become a mass anything factory once Maoi is up. My thought is to spread Buddhism there too and mass missionaries of both religions or mass some military.

Should I build some windmills once I get Machinery?
 
A few comments:

I think National Epic needs to be top priority in Seoul. We are in prime-time for the value of Great People, and any time we waste building other stuff (like wonders) will hurt. We have enough pop in Seoul, lets reassign citizens to maximum production and get that NE up. Chop Seoul's forested hill and mine it, and chop the rest of its trees. We have no marble, so its going to take about 20 turns (less with chops). Also, I notice our workers are building cottages in Seoul. This isn't a huge deal, but I usually go 100% farms in my GP city. This game is going to be long over before those become towns and 6-bulb scientists are much better.

Micro for Ulundi: I see we're running max-food/commerce here with little production, so the market will take 20 turns to produce. I ran the numbers and its to our benefit to get the market up immediately by running max production instead. I don't have the figures from my computation in front of me, but from memory, it was a net gain of 35 points of commerce over the 20 turn horizon to go full production to build a 7-turn market, then switch back to commerce versus running full commerce for 20 turns (Assuming our current 50% research slider). Its fine to keep running two specialists so we can get our next GP in 17 turns, which will roughly coincide with Seoul building the NE (assuming we expedite its production as I recommended). Then we can switch to caste and let Seoul take over on GPP.

Also, our eastern city (name escapes me) is producing pure-research. I consider producing coins to always be a superior choice since you can always adjust the research slider. Also, it needs to work its goldmine.

Research-wise, I think it will be fun to see if we can pull off Free Steel, but its certainly going to be a challenge so we need to work hard to get our research roaring. Once we're at Lib-in-1, we shouldn't backfill any tech that is not on the way to Steel (no Theo). We should work on getting Mao or JC to friendly to be our trading partner. I will take a closer look at our diplo to see what our options are to this end.

As far as expansion goes, I think c2* is worth keeping along with the barb city, its just a matter of how many cities our economy can support. As for sury's southern expansion, I don't think we need to do any blocking there since the rest of the southern sites are garbage. Remember our endgame is Steel, so anything that we can't get developed and revenue-positive by then will just hamper our progress towards victory. Pretty much any decision we make right now (expansion or otherwise) should be in light of: Does this get us to Steel faster or slower.
 
Ok few observations to add.

If we do want a southern blocker I suggest the black spot as it catchs more grassland than yellow dot
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg


Nobamba is working the lake. It should be working a cottage instead.
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg


I agree with cripp7's observations on Seoul. Also its running a spy so fire him or whip him off.
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg


On the University of Sankor I have to say I don't see the benifit to us right now.
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0004-1-1.jpg


Sorry the screen isn't to clear. Its the City Religious Adviser. We have almost NO religious buildings as yet and at the current construction rate in our cities while we work some commerce to get to Lib it would take a very long time to get the max out of the UoS. IMO we could spend those hammers more wisely on workers, units or more basic city needs. Don't get me wrong here I love the UoS when its plopped in to a civ that already has a few religoius buildings, I just don't think we should consider it yet.

Staying on the religion front stay Christian but spread Buddism as much as possible. Which leads on to...

....Delhi. Why is it building a Buddist monastry? We are in Organised religion so if we want to build Missionaries then we can with out the Monestry. I think it should be building a Lib or some thing similar (can't recall what is in the city!). We should get this ready to be our Wall Street city. Also I'm happy with the Forbiden Palace here.

As I metioned above I think we could do with a few more workers. Nobamba really souldn't have any jungle left (I realise it was a war front untill recently).

Bombay is total garbage. I hadn't really noticed till last night. I wish we had razed it.

Regarding the last two cities I say keep Vijayangara and raze Varanasi to resettle to the north.

What do people think about getting Mao to take peace with Asoka so we can get him to help JC in his war with Sury? I guess it might not be worth it as in a few turns we'll end the war for him. Once this happens though do see if he'll DoW on Sury.

Don't hold on to Philio if it looks like its about to go. Even if techs aren't on offer you can still get cash.

I doubt our economy can take it but c2* and the barb city look ok to me. Remeber our priority is to get towards Lib and Steel.
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg


Finally I'd put the GSci's Acadamy in Ulundi.
 
@Narri:

I think you should have little trouble finishing off the pesky Indians...and I agree with keeping Vijay and razing/replanting the other one.

I also agree that our next victim should be Sury once we capture Steel.
To be honest, once we are at that point Sury will have no counter for us.
I figure we will crank Muskets and Cannons for an unstoppable SoD.

As far as future expansion goes (after killing Asoka):

Taking the barb city looks good.
I think c2 will be okay if we run all cottages.

I have reconsidered building Sankore...Sirloin and Grandad provided a solid argument for the NE and I agree with them. I guess I just assumed we had more Christian buildings.

I do feel that we can make a run at the Parthenon in Umung.
It can't hurt too much...we might get it...we might get some failure cash...either way we win.
Plus Umung doesn't need to crank any units until we get to Gunpowder.

Good luck Narri!
 
One other thing to add: remember we're in OR so make sure to get Christian missionaries to our new cities for their infrastructure.
 
I shall begin in a few hours. National Epic is the confirmed wonder build for Seoul.

I'm probably going to go with the Mao route in trading (giving Lit for free to get to Friendly, then trading for Machinery).

Asoka won't believe how fast his final destruction will come :lol:
 
Bombay is total garbage. I hadn't really noticed till last night. I wish we had razed it.

Yeah I actually was thinking that too, but accidentally hit keep. oh well.
We need one 1 city to spam out missionaries, both christ and buddha to help with both gold from shrine and 25%:hammers: on buildings which we're doing right now. OR is like a free forge.

UoS: we'd need a lot of temples/monasteries to get +4:research: per city. HG would give +1 pop per city, I say go after it.

After the last 2 cities are taken/razed, regroup all our elite units together. We can make a new stack of cannons/muskets for Sury and use the other for WvO.
 
Back
Top Bottom